Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

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Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

The Returning Officer
A new candidate has been put forward for autoeditor status:

Candidate: HibiscusKazeneko
           http://musicbrainz.org/user/HibiscusKazeneko
Proposer:  pankkake
           http://musicbrainz.org/user/pankkake

* If two seconders are found within 1 week, voting will begin
* Otherwise, the proposal will automatically be rejected
* Alternatively, pankkake may withdraw the proposal

Please participate:
http://musicbrainz.org/election/291

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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

pankkake
On 2015-02-01 18:26, The Returning Officer wrote:
> A new candidate has been put forward for autoeditor status:
>
> Candidate: HibiscusKazeneko
>            http://musicbrainz.org/user/HibiscusKazeneko


HibiscusKazeneko has more than 300,000 edits.
To put it in perspective, she is the 11th editor by edits and there is
only one non-auto editor above that rank.

On the voting side, there is much less to see in raw numbers, but she
prevented a decent load of wrong edits, properly justified with a comment.
And now that I think of it, there should be a comments statistic, which
would be more meaningful!

I delayed this nomination mostly because as she edits mostly out of my
knowledge domains (Japanese) I expected someone else to do it.
I have followed a great numbers of her edits in the last few weeks and
they were always properly sourced and she was reactive to remarks.

She is one of the few editors repairing the damage done by the
short-lived and still mysterious Likedis Auto bot and maintains a tag
related to that enormous task. I would never have found by myself the
duplicates that bot added to some of my subscribed artists.

What also makes this nomination worthwhile is that a great number of
edits have failed because of race conditions that would not have
happened were she an auto-editor.

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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

Mikhail Yakshin-2
>> A new candidate has been put forward for autoeditor status:
>>
>> Candidate: HibiscusKazeneko
>>            http://musicbrainz.org/user/HibiscusKazeneko
>
> HibiscusKazeneko has more than 300,000 edits.
> To put it in perspective, she is the 11th editor by edits and there is
> only one non-auto editor above that rank.

A great nomination! Just a quick question: could you please confirm
that you've asked her and she's ok with it? You know, given the
precedents of people willingly refusing.

--
WBR, Mikhail Yakshin

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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Mikhail Yakshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> A new candidate has been put forward for autoeditor status:
>>
>> Candidate: HibiscusKazeneko
>>            http://musicbrainz.org/user/HibiscusKazeneko
>
> HibiscusKazeneko has more than 300,000 edits.
> To put it in perspective, she is the 11th editor by edits and there is
> only one non-auto editor above that rank.

A great nomination! Just a quick question: could you please confirm
that you've asked her and she's ok with it? You know, given the
precedents of people willingly refusing.

She was on IRC earlier to thank pankkake for the nomination, so pretty sure she's ok with it :)
 
--
Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

KRSCuan
In reply to this post by pankkake
On 01.02.2015 18:30 pankkake wrote:

> HibiscusKazeneko has more than 300,000 edits.
> To put it in perspective, she is the 11th editor by edits and there is
> only one non-auto editor above that rank.
>
> On the voting side, there is much less to see in raw numbers, but she
> prevented a decent load of wrong edits, properly justified with a comment.
> And now that I think of it, there should be a comments statistic, which
> would be more meaningful!
>
> I delayed this nomination mostly because as she edits mostly out of my
> knowledge domains (Japanese) I expected someone else to do it.
> I have followed a great numbers of her edits in the last few weeks and
> they were always properly sourced and she was reactive to remarks.
>
> She is one of the few editors repairing the damage done by the
> short-lived and still mysterious Likedis Auto bot and maintains a tag
> related to that enormous task. I would never have found by myself the
> duplicates that bot added to some of my subscribed artists.
>
> What also makes this nomination worthwhile is that a great number of
> edits have failed because of race conditions that would not have
> happened were she an auto-editor.

Let me start off by saying that I considered nominating HibiscusKazeneko
in the past as well. I ended not nominating her yet because I could
hardly get a clear impression based on the small subset of edits I had
the chance to vote on, and there were few subscribers I could ask for
second opinions. Most of her edits went through unchecked during that
time. She has more people checking her edits now, so I guess we can
evaluate her better on the quality of her edits. But that's not the
reason I still wouldn't nominate her as an auto-editor.

I hope HK doesn't take that personally, but I have severe doubts about
her suitability of character and how she would follow the Code of
Conduct as an auto-editor. She has on many occasions complained on edits
as well as IRC about feeling forced to do things by other editors, when
she met opposition on controversial edits or was merely pointed out she
made a typo [1]. Often by her would-be colleagues on this list, going so
far for some as saying that their word is law and that nobody is allowed
to disagree with them. And while some complaints might have been
justified in a few cases, the volume of it irks me, as well as the
question how she would deal with these situations with her new-found
powers. I won't tell any names or give quotatations for now, unless
asked to. Note that most of it is conveniently absent from public logs. ;)

For these reasons, I have to oppose her as an auto-editor at this point.

- KRSCuan


[1] http://musicbrainz.org/edit/30864202 &
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/30918633

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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM, KRSCuan <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 01.02.2015 18:30 pankkake wrote:
> HibiscusKazeneko has more than 300,000 edits.
> To put it in perspective, she is the 11th editor by edits and there is
> only one non-auto editor above that rank.
>
> On the voting side, there is much less to see in raw numbers, but she
> prevented a decent load of wrong edits, properly justified with a comment.
> And now that I think of it, there should be a comments statistic, which
> would be more meaningful!
>
> I delayed this nomination mostly because as she edits mostly out of my
> knowledge domains (Japanese) I expected someone else to do it.
> I have followed a great numbers of her edits in the last few weeks and
> they were always properly sourced and she was reactive to remarks.
>
> She is one of the few editors repairing the damage done by the
> short-lived and still mysterious Likedis Auto bot and maintains a tag
> related to that enormous task. I would never have found by myself the
> duplicates that bot added to some of my subscribed artists.
>
> What also makes this nomination worthwhile is that a great number of
> edits have failed because of race conditions that would not have
> happened were she an auto-editor.

I hope HK doesn't take that personally, but I have severe doubts about
her suitability of character and how she would follow the Code of
Conduct as an auto-editor. She has on many occasions complained on edits
as well as IRC about feeling forced to do things by other editors, when
she met opposition on controversial edits or was merely pointed out she
made a typo [1]. Often by her would-be colleagues on this list, going so
far for some as saying that their word is law and that nobody is allowed
to disagree with them. And while some complaints might have been
justified in a few cases, the volume of it irks me, as well as the
question how she would deal with these situations with her new-found
powers. I won't tell any names or give quotatations for now, unless
asked to. Note that most of it is conveniently absent from public logs. ;)

For these reasons, I have to oppose her as an auto-editor at this point.

Those are my reservations too, to a degree - I trust her reasonably fine as an editor (she has some disagreements with others but a lot of people in this list do, including myself at times) but I'm a bit worried by her feeling of everyone being against her sometimes clouding her judgement. That said, I would hope if she does get accepted, she might start realising it's not a "me against the world" situation (or she wouldn't have been accepted in the first place) - so that might actually help. I won't be voting No here - but I need some time to consider whether to abstain or vote for it :)

Nicolás

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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

pankkake
On 2015-02-01 20:35, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
> Those are my reservations too, to a degree - I trust her reasonably fine
> as an editor (she has some disagreements with others but a lot of people
> in this list do, including myself at times) but I'm a bit worried by her
> feeling of everyone being against her sometimes clouding her judgement.
> That said, I would hope if she does get accepted, she might start
> realising it's not a "me against the world" situation (or she wouldn't
> have been accepted in the first place) - so that might actually help. I
> won't be voting No here - but I need some time to consider whether to
> abstain or vote for it :)

I think those are valid concerns. However I haven't seen any refusal to
follow the editors' consensus, which would certainly be damaging if that
was the case.

I feel this can be due to frustration, which is bound to happen with so
many edits and artists to watch for.
During the last few weeks I've seen unexplained No votes against her
edits, for example.


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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

Duke Yin
HibiscusKazeneko's behavior in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/30573960 still concerns me.  It's a bit more on the malevolent side than the example KRSCuan presented.  (If someone here thinks that behavior is actually justified, you should probably private message so that we can get on the same page before the voting period nears its end.)

During the last few weeks I've seen unexplained No votes against her
edits, for example.
Does this involve a significant number of editors, or just the newish voter RKM012?

On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:53 PM, pankkake <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2015-02-01 20:35, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
> Those are my reservations too, to a degree - I trust her reasonably fine
> as an editor (she has some disagreements with others but a lot of people
> in this list do, including myself at times) but I'm a bit worried by her
> feeling of everyone being against her sometimes clouding her judgement.
> That said, I would hope if she does get accepted, she might start
> realising it's not a "me against the world" situation (or she wouldn't
> have been accepted in the first place) - so that might actually help. I
> won't be voting No here - but I need some time to consider whether to
> abstain or vote for it :)

I think those are valid concerns. However I haven't seen any refusal to
follow the editors' consensus, which would certainly be damaging if that
was the case.

I feel this can be due to frustration, which is bound to happen with so
many edits and artists to watch for.
During the last few weeks I've seen unexplained No votes against her
edits, for example.


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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

David Hilton

I had been thinking that if she could restrict her autoedits to things that are uncontroversial, it could work out.

However, her fatalistic attitude ("we have no choice") makes me think she might use autoedits in iffy situations.

David

On Feb 1, 2015 1:34 PM, "Duke Yin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
HibiscusKazeneko's behavior in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/30573960 still concerns me.  It's a bit more on the malevolent side than the example KRSCuan presented.  (If someone here thinks that behavior is actually justified, you should probably private message so that we can get on the same page before the voting period nears its end.)

During the last few weeks I've seen unexplained No votes against her
edits, for example.
Does this involve a significant number of editors, or just the newish voter RKM012?

On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:53 PM, pankkake <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2015-02-01 20:35, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
> Those are my reservations too, to a degree - I trust her reasonably fine
> as an editor (she has some disagreements with others but a lot of people
> in this list do, including myself at times) but I'm a bit worried by her
> feeling of everyone being against her sometimes clouding her judgement.
> That said, I would hope if she does get accepted, she might start
> realising it's not a "me against the world" situation (or she wouldn't
> have been accepted in the first place) - so that might actually help. I
> won't be voting No here - but I need some time to consider whether to
> abstain or vote for it :)

I think those are valid concerns. However I haven't seen any refusal to
follow the editors' consensus, which would certainly be damaging if that
was the case.

I feel this can be due to frustration, which is bound to happen with so
many edits and artists to watch for.
During the last few weeks I've seen unexplained No votes against her
edits, for example.


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Re: Autoeditor Election: HibiscusKazeneko

voiceinsideyou
I guess there's at least two ways that this could go. Perhaps engaging her with the process further by rewarding her massive positive contribution will show her that (occasionally) conflicting viewpoints and "outsiders" (as she seems to feel like, possibly causing said fatalism) can be rewarded/recognised and that there is reason for hope. Perhaps that may encourage her to engage more with the style process to refine, clarify, change the rules rather than rage against the machine.

Or maybe you're right and there will be abuse. The question then is, do we have the right forum and chance for that abuse to be discovered and discussed if it indeed happens (e.g. an autoeditor makes thousands of edit to stuff to do it "their way" despite this having been disagreed upon with other editors earlier). Or will she do the right thing and turn off auto edit for edits that are more contentious?

It is not always those that feel bullied that turn to bullying once they have power to do so :)

On 2/02/2015 4:54 a.m., David Hilton wrote:

I had been thinking that if she could restrict her autoedits to things that are uncontroversial, it could work out.

However, her fatalistic attitude ("we have no choice") makes me think she might use autoedits in iffy situations.

David

On Feb 1, 2015 1:34 PM, "Duke Yin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
HibiscusKazeneko's behavior in http://musicbrainz.org/edit/30573960 still concerns me.  It's a bit more on the malevolent side than the example KRSCuan presented.  (If someone here thinks that behavior is actually justified, you should probably private message so that we can get on the same page before the voting period nears its end.)

During the last few weeks I've seen unexplained No votes against her
edits, for example.
Does this involve a significant number of editors, or just the newish voter RKM012?

On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:53 PM, pankkake <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2015-02-01 20:35, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
> Those are my reservations too, to a degree - I trust her reasonably fine
> as an editor (she has some disagreements with others but a lot of people
> in this list do, including myself at times) but I'm a bit worried by her
> feeling of everyone being against her sometimes clouding her judgement.
> That said, I would hope if she does get accepted, she might start
> realising it's not a "me against the world" situation (or she wouldn't
> have been accepted in the first place) - so that might actually help. I
> won't be voting No here - but I need some time to consider whether to
> abstain or vote for it :)

I think those are valid concerns. However I haven't seen any refusal to
follow the editors' consensus, which would certainly be damaging if that
was the case.

I feel this can be due to frustration, which is bound to happen with so
many edits and artists to watch for.
During the last few weeks I've seen unexplained No votes against her
edits, for example.


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