Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

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Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

tommycrock

I want to clarify the use of compilation to include 'rarities' albums, and get your suggestions. I also want to fix a discrepancy with the official release group style guide.
I want to change the start of http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Release_Group/Type#Compilation to :

A compilation, for the purposes of the MusicBrainz database, covers the following types of releases:

    an anthology, which is defined as being a group of songs from various sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
    a various artists song collection, usually based on a general theme ("Songs for Lovers"), a particular year ("Hits of 1998"), or some other kind of grouping ("Songs From the Movies", the "Café del Mar" series, etc).

Also, at http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release_Group
We say :
"Compilation should be used in addition to, not instead of, other types: for example, a various artists soundtrack using pre-released music should be marked as both a soundtrack and a compilation. As a general rule, always select every secondary type that applies."
This is contradicted in the unofficial Type page :
" a various artists soundtrack could also be considered a compilation. In general, compilation should be superseded by other release attributes when required."
So I'll copy across the official version

P.S not an RFC because it isn't an official guide


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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

lixobix
tommycrock wrote
I want to clarify the use of compilation to include 'rarities' albums, and
get your suggestions. I also want to fix a discrepancy with the official
release group style guide.
I want to change the start of
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Release_Group/Type#Compilation to :

A compilation, for the purposes of the MusicBrainz database, covers the
following types of releases:

    an anthology, which is defined as being a group of songs from various
sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or
retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but
a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
    a various artists song collection, usually based on a general theme
("Songs for Lovers"), a particular year ("Hits of 1998"), or some other
kind of grouping ("Songs From the Movies", the "Café del Mar" series, etc).

Also, at http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release_Group
We say :
"Compilation should be used in addition to, not instead of, other types:
for example, a various artists soundtrack using pre-released music should
be marked as both a soundtrack and a compilation. As a general rule, always
select every secondary type that applies."
This is contradicted in the unofficial Type page :
" a various artists soundtrack could also be considered a compilation. In
general, compilation should be superseded by other release attributes when
required."
So I'll copy across the official version

P.S not an RFC because it isn't an official guide

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Looks good to me.
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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

jesus2099
In reply to this post by tommycrock
notice that the term anthology is used for something else in http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=4839 ongoing discussion.
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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

tommycrock

Yep. I haven't changed that from how it is.
I'm not convinced anthology has a different meaning from compilation but I'm not changing it here (and it seems to be the same as proposed in that discussion)


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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

jesus2099
In reply to this post by tommycrock
Well, you consider anthologies as being :
tommycrock wrote
an anthology, which is defined as being a group of songs from various
sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or
retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but
a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
Whereas the forum tells anthologies are like boxset with a whole album span (all their albums, etc.), or all the singles, etc.
http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=4839
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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

tommycrock

On 31 Mar 2014 14:25, "jesus2099" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, you consider anthologies as being :
>
> tommycrock wrote
> > an anthology, which is defined as being a group of songs from various
> > sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or
> > retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but
> > a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
>
> Whereas the forum tells anthologies are like boxset with a whole album span
> (all their albums, etc.), or all the singles, etc.
> http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=4839
>

My understanding was that the opinion in the forum thread was that an anthology was a collection of Works by a single artist.
But, is there something you think I should change in my suggestions for the docs?


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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

swisschris
I agree with Jesus that a simple "Greatest Hits" of "best of" compilation of a single artist definitely is NOT (and should not be called) an anthology. To be called an "Anthology" a release should include some editorial efforts and (at least) the aim at some sort of completeness: "The Beatles collection" (http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/3fe20166-34f6-429f-968b-c2ff9fcfcc00 All Albums + a bonus disc with rarities) or "The complete 50s masters" by Elvis Presley http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/32d06c0a-ace6-345c-99e9-43d2dd1d8d8c or any "Complete B-sides" (or "A- & B-sides collection")  like e.g. http://musicbrainz.org/release/f0931811-c3d1-456c-917c-6ca725f13e8e, but also releases like the "chronological classics" http://musicbrainz.org/label/cf239f09-7ccf-4feb-8c09-eef7bdc22d27?page=1 or the "Intégrale" box sets by Frémeaux or Bear Family. 

I haven't made my mind up yet whether "2 in 1" releases or "5 original albums" sets should be "compilations" or "anthologies"


On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Tom Crocker <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 31 Mar 2014 14:25, "jesus2099" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, you consider anthologies as being :
>
> tommycrock wrote
> > an anthology, which is defined as being a group of songs from various
> > sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or
> > retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but
> > a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
>
> Whereas the forum tells anthologies are like boxset with a whole album span
> (all their albums, etc.), or all the singles, etc.
> http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=4839
>

My understanding was that the opinion in the forum thread was that an anthology was a collection of Works by a single artist.
But, is there something you think I should change in my suggestions for the docs?


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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

David Gasaway
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 11:33 AM, SwissChris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I agree with Jesus that a simple "Greatest Hits" of "best of" compilation of
> a single artist definitely is NOT (and should not be called) an anthology.

In the real world, it happens (see link below), probably generally
with compilations with more than one medium.  Not that we have to
label these releases as an "anthology" just because the cover says so.
:)
http://musicbrainz.org/release/94c5881c-e47a-42ba-bea0-d9ff8cb79dd1


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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

lixobix
In reply to this post by tommycrock
tommycrock wrote
I want to clarify the use of compilation to include 'rarities' albums, and
get your suggestions. I also want to fix a discrepancy with the official
release group style guide.
I want to change the start of
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Release_Group/Type#Compilation to :

A compilation, for the purposes of the MusicBrainz database, covers the
following types of releases:

    an anthology, which is defined as being a group of songs from various
sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or
retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but
a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
    a various artists song collection, usually based on a general theme
("Songs for Lovers"), a particular year ("Hits of 1998"), or some other
kind of grouping ("Songs From the Movies", the "Café del Mar" series, etc).

Also, at http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release_Group
We say :
"Compilation should be used in addition to, not instead of, other types:
for example, a various artists soundtrack using pre-released music should
be marked as both a soundtrack and a compilation. As a general rule, always
select every secondary type that applies."
This is contradicted in the unofficial Type page :
" a various artists soundtrack could also be considered a compilation. In
general, compilation should be superseded by other release attributes when
required."
So I'll copy across the official version

P.S not an RFC because it isn't an official guide

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How about:

    a release containing tracks by a single artist from various sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
    a collection of tracks by various artists, usually based on a general theme ("Songs for Lovers"), a particular year ("Hits of 1998"), or some other kind of grouping ("Songs From the Movies", the "Café del Mar" series, etc).
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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

swisschris
That's better ;-) I'm still hesitant about using the term "retrospective", though.

Maybe, to meet your concerns and those expressed in the forum discussion http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=4839  we should consider creating one or two new secondary types: "Anthology" ("complete", "retrospective" compilations as defined above) and "Multi-Albums" (for "2 in 1" or "5 original albums"). I have set to "other" the one I added recently http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/ae231f2a-45f1-417e-8913-54c6ea9edbd8 , because it wouldn't fit the definitions of either album nor compilation …


On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 9:32 PM, lixobix <[hidden email]> wrote:
tommycrock wrote
> I want to clarify the use of compilation to include 'rarities' albums, and
> get your suggestions. I also want to fix a discrepancy with the official
> release group style guide.
> I want to change the start of
> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Release_Group/Type#Compilation to :
>
> A compilation, for the purposes of the MusicBrainz database, covers the
> following types of releases:
>
>     an anthology, which is defined as being a group of songs from various
> sources (not necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or
> retrospective type release. The artist may still be producing material but
> a compilation is of previously produced (not current) material.
>     a various artists song collection, usually based on a general theme
> ("Songs for Lovers"), a particular year ("Hits of 1998"), or some other
> kind of grouping ("Songs From the Movies", the "Café del Mar" series,
> etc).
>
> Also, at http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release_Group
> We say :
> "Compilation should be used in addition to, not instead of, other types:
> for example, a various artists soundtrack using pre-released music should
> be marked as both a soundtrack and a compilation. As a general rule,
> always
> select every secondary type that applies."
> This is contradicted in the unofficial Type page :
> " a various artists soundtrack could also be considered a compilation. In
> general, compilation should be superseded by other release attributes when
> required."
> So I'll copy across the official version
>
> P.S not an RFC because it isn't an official guide
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-style mailing list

> MusicBrainz-style@.musicbrainz

> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style

How about:

    a release containing tracks by a single artist from various sources (not
necessarily released) combined together as a "best of" or retrospective type
release. The artist may still be producing material but a compilation is of
previously produced (not current) material.
    a collection of tracks by various artists, usually based on a general
theme ("Songs for Lovers"), a particular year ("Hits of 1998"), or some
other kind of grouping ("Songs From the Movies", the "Café del Mar" series,
etc).



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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

tommycrock

I'm happy to remove the word (and therefore definition of) anthology here. I left it in because it is already that way. I would also be happy for some new types to be proposed but this is just about making the current definition clearer, not redefining anything.

Personally I think we're misusing "anthology" if we use it in any of the special senses proposed here or in the forum thread. I think anthology is basically a nicer sounding term for compilation, with some hint that the songs are 'choice' or 'definitive' in some way. I don't think it's exclusive to complete collections or single artist release groups.
Definition http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/anthology :
A collection of songs or musical compositions issued in one album.
Origin:
from Greek anthologia, from anthos 'flower' + -logia 'collection'. In Greek, the word originally denoted a collection of the ‘flowers’ of verse, i.e. small choice poems or epigrams, by various authors.
e.g.
Anthology of American Folk Music http://musicbrainz.org/release-group/af0fb63b-0f62-36af-8871-07342b13d2d8


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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

tommycrock

Based on suggestions here I've updated my proposed changes. A comparison with the existing text can be seen at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=User:Tommycrock/proposal/Release_Group/Type/Compilation&diff=65830&oldid=65824

I'm not trying to change meaning (except where it contradicts the official guidance) just clarify it.


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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

lixobix
tommycrock wrote
Based on suggestions here I've updated my proposed changes. A comparison
with the existing text can be seen at
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=User:Tommycrock/proposal/Release_Group/Type/Compilation&diff=65830&oldid=65824

I'm not trying to change meaning (except where it contradicts the official
guidance) just clarify it.

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Looks good to me.

I would say compilation is a better general term than anthology. It's used by most discography sites and widely in the industry (a releases is usually called a greatest hits compilation, not a greatest hits anthology).

I'd be open to a new secondary type if users can come up with a solid distinction. There seemed to be a lot of debate on the forum thread, not sure how straightforward it would be. Dividing the wide group of 'Compilation' into subsets may be difficult because of the myriad of combination of types and statuses of recordings that can end up on a compilation.
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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

jesus2099
In reply to this post by tommycrock
Here is the ticket for this, if I don’t mistake : http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-243
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Re: Changes to #Compilation in Release Group/Type

tommycrock


On 28 Nov 2014 14:05, "jesus2099" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Here is the ticket for this, if I don’t mistake :
> http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-243
>

This change already happened without a ticket. It wasn't an official style guideline and consensus was reached (it was only clarifying the use of  compilation for rarities and the like)


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