Edit Expiration Times (MBS-2614, MBS-4594)

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Edit Expiration Times (MBS-2614, MBS-4594)

Brandon LeBlanc
Hey Gang!

So, I'm working on MBS-2614 [1] and MBS-4594 [2] and I have a question
for the users. The gist of the issues is that when edits expire, be it
by the expiration date or the unanimous rule, they aren't closed and
applied immediately. Edits remain open for voting until when they are
closed at the top of the hour by ModBot, provided there are no bugs in
the server preventing their application. Edits that have expired but
are still open display "Already expired," which is confusing for some
who are unfamiliar with how our edit system works.

There are four proposed solutions to these tickets:
1) Make edits close and apply as soon as they expire.
2) Set the expire time to shortly before ModBot runs when the edit is entered.
3) Use the existing expiry dates but change the display of the edits
to show the expiry time rounded up to the next hour.
4) Change the "already expired" text to something less confusing
keeping the edit system they way it is now.

Before I continue on these, I need a consensus on what the users would
prefer or another option. I'll keep this open for debate until August
27 at which I'll submit a patch so it will have time to make it onto
the September 3 bug fix release. I'll keep a wiki [3] up to keep track
of votes and any other proposals that may be made.

[1] http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-2614
[2] http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4594
[3] http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Demosdemon/MBS-4594

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Joachim Brandon LeBlanc

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Re: Edit Expiration Times (MBS-2614, MBS-4594)

Maurits Meulenbelt
I must admit I've never run into this problem in years of using MusicBrainz.
The most logical solution would be 1. It's the behaviour I'd expect. 2, 3 and 4 look more like workarounds to me.

Op 15-8-2012 4:29, Brandon LeBlanc schreef:
Hey Gang!

So, I'm working on MBS-2614 [1] and MBS-4594 [2] and I have a question
for the users. The gist of the issues is that when edits expire, be it
by the expiration date or the unanimous rule, they aren't closed and
applied immediately. Edits remain open for voting until when they are
closed at the top of the hour by ModBot, provided there are no bugs in
the server preventing their application. Edits that have expired but
are still open display "Already expired," which is confusing for some
who are unfamiliar with how our edit system works.

There are four proposed solutions to these tickets:
1) Make edits close and apply as soon as they expire.
2) Set the expire time to shortly before ModBot runs when the edit is entered.
3) Use the existing expiry dates but change the display of the edits
to show the expiry time rounded up to the next hour.
4) Change the "already expired" text to something less confusing
keeping the edit system they way it is now.

Before I continue on these, I need a consensus on what the users would
prefer or another option. I'll keep this open for debate until August
27 at which I'll submit a patch so it will have time to make it onto
the September 3 bug fix release. I'll keep a wiki [3] up to keep track
of votes and any other proposals that may be made.

[1] http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-2614
[2] http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-4594
[3] http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Demosdemon/MBS-4594



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Re: Edit Expiration Times (MBS-2614, MBS-4594)

Andrew Conkling
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 5:46 AM, Maurits Meulenbelt <[hidden email]> wrote:
I must admit I've never run into this problem in years of using MusicBrainz.
The most logical solution would be 1. It's the behaviour I'd expect. 2, 3 and 4 look more like workarounds to me.

+1

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Re: Edit Expiration Times (MBS-2614, MBS-4594)

Calvin Walton-2
In reply to this post by Brandon LeBlanc
On Tue, 2012-08-14 at 21:29 -0500, Brandon LeBlanc wrote:

> Hey Gang!
>
> So, I'm working on MBS-2614 [1] and MBS-4594 [2] and I have a question
> for the users. The gist of the issues is that when edits expire, be it
> by the expiration date or the unanimous rule, they aren't closed and
> applied immediately. Edits remain open for voting until when they are
> closed at the top of the hour by ModBot, provided there are no bugs in
> the server preventing their application. Edits that have expired but
> are still open display "Already expired," which is confusing for some
> who are unfamiliar with how our edit system works.
>
> There are four proposed solutions to these tickets:
> 1) Make edits close and apply as soon as they expire.

This would be the ideal option, but I'm actually a little curious about
how it'll be implemented (maybe this is more appropriate for the dev
list, but...)

In order to expire edits, you need some sort of backend process that
notices when the edit expires, and does the required application steps.
This process is currently called "ModBot" and runs once every hour - and
is a fairly heavy job when it does run. Do you plan to have some sort of
reduced-functionality ModBot-like process that runs more often? Even so,
I doubt you could get the delay down below a couple minutes or so.

I suppose the other idea might be to trick people - if someone views a
resource that has a pending expired edit, you could apply the edit
immediately in the web server process before rendering the page.

(The other case, making an edit apply immediately upon receiving e.g. a
3rd unanimous yes vote, would be much easier to handle, this could just
be applied when the 3rd vote is received in the same way as an
autoeditor approval applies immediately.)

--
Calvin Walton <[hidden email]>


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Re: Edit Expiration Times (MBS-2614, MBS-4594)

Frederic Da Vitoria
2012/8/15 Calvin Walton <[hidden email]>
On Tue, 2012-08-14 at 21:29 -0500, Brandon LeBlanc wrote:
> Hey Gang!
>
> So, I'm working on MBS-2614 [1] and MBS-4594 [2] and I have a question
> for the users. The gist of the issues is that when edits expire, be it
> by the expiration date or the unanimous rule, they aren't closed and
> applied immediately. Edits remain open for voting until when they are
> closed at the top of the hour by ModBot, provided there are no bugs in
> the server preventing their application. Edits that have expired but
> are still open display "Already expired," which is confusing for some
> who are unfamiliar with how our edit system works.
>
> There are four proposed solutions to these tickets:
> 1) Make edits close and apply as soon as they expire.

This would be the ideal option, but I'm actually a little curious about
how it'll be implemented (maybe this is more appropriate for the dev
list, but...)

In order to expire edits, you need some sort of backend process that
notices when the edit expires, and does the required application steps.
This process is currently called "ModBot" and runs once every hour - and
is a fairly heavy job when it does run. Do you plan to have some sort of
reduced-functionality ModBot-like process that runs more often? Even so,
I doubt you could get the delay down below a couple minutes or so.

I suppose the other idea might be to trick people - if someone views a
resource that has a pending expired edit, you could apply the edit
immediately in the web server process before rendering the page.

(The other case, making an edit apply immediately upon receiving e.g. a
3rd unanimous yes vote, would be much easier to handle, this could just
be applied when the 3rd vote is received in the same way as an
autoeditor approval applies immediately.)

I agree that solution1, although preferable, may be too costly to implement. Couldn't solution 4 be improved by displaying the hour at which ModBot should apply the edit?

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org


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Re: Edit Expiration Times (MBS-2614, MBS-4594)

swisschris
Since this seems to be a problem only for people "unfamiliar with how are edit system works", I could go for 4) with a text saying "already expired; will be applied within the next 60 minutes" or eventually combined with 2), automatically setting the expiration time as close as possible to the scheduled modBot run, with a text spelling "already expired; will be applied within the next 10/15 minutes"

Chris/chabreyflint

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
2012/8/15 Calvin Walton <[hidden email]>
On Tue, 2012-08-14 at 21:29 -0500, Brandon LeBlanc wrote:
> Hey Gang!
>
> So, I'm working on MBS-2614 [1] and MBS-4594 [2] and I have a question
> for the users. The gist of the issues is that when edits expire, be it
> by the expiration date or the unanimous rule, they aren't closed and
> applied immediately. Edits remain open for voting until when they are
> closed at the top of the hour by ModBot, provided there are no bugs in
> the server preventing their application. Edits that have expired but
> are still open display "Already expired," which is confusing for some
> who are unfamiliar with how our edit system works.
>
> There are four proposed solutions to these tickets:
> 1) Make edits close and apply as soon as they expire.

This would be the ideal option, but I'm actually a little curious about
how it'll be implemented (maybe this is more appropriate for the dev
list, but...)

In order to expire edits, you need some sort of backend process that
notices when the edit expires, and does the required application steps.
This process is currently called "ModBot" and runs once every hour - and
is a fairly heavy job when it does run. Do you plan to have some sort of
reduced-functionality ModBot-like process that runs more often? Even so,
I doubt you could get the delay down below a couple minutes or so.

I suppose the other idea might be to trick people - if someone views a
resource that has a pending expired edit, you could apply the edit
immediately in the web server process before rendering the page.

(The other case, making an edit apply immediately upon receiving e.g. a
3rd unanimous yes vote, would be much easier to handle, this could just
be applied when the 3rd vote is received in the same way as an
autoeditor approval applies immediately.)

I agree that solution1, although preferable, may be too costly to implement. Couldn't solution 4 be improved by displaying the hour at which ModBot should apply the edit?

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org


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