Gravatar support

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Gravatar support

Oliver Charles
Hello,

Rob has just finished work on Gravatar support, and it has now been
merged onto the test servers (see [1] for an example).

While most people are generally for Gravatar support, but a few people
have shown some concern over it. So this presents us with 3 options:

* Mandatory Gravatars for all users with email addresses. Gravatars
will not show if the user does not have an email address. This is the
current solution.

* Optional Gravatar support - server Gravatars by hot-linking, but
allow users to specify whether they want Gravatar support on or off.

* Mirrored Gravatar support - as above, but Gravatars are first cached
on MusicBrainz servers. This will cause an extra overhead on the
servers, as at some point we have to update all our cached copies. I'm
generally against this idea, for that reason…

* Use a hot-linked Gravatar, and support custom image uploads.

What do people think – which of these should we use?

--
    Oliver Charles / aCiD2

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Re: Gravatar support

Oliver Charles
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Oliver Charles
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Rob has just finished work on Gravatar support, and it has now been
> merged onto the test servers (see [1] for an example).

Where [1] is http://test.musicbrainz.org/user/profile/acid2 :)

--
    Oliver Charles / aCiD2

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Re: Gravatar support

Paul C. Bryan-2
In reply to this post by Oliver Charles
I tried to click on [1], but nothing happened!

On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 17:23 +0100, Oliver Charles wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Rob has just finished work on Gravatar support, and it has now been
> merged onto the test servers (see [1] for an example).
>
> While most people are generally for Gravatar support, but a few people
> have shown some concern over it. So this presents us with 3 options:
>
> * Mandatory Gravatars for all users with email addresses. Gravatars
> will not show if the user does not have an email address. This is the
> current solution.
>
> * Optional Gravatar support - server Gravatars by hot-linking, but
> allow users to specify whether they want Gravatar support on or off.
>
> * Mirrored Gravatar support - as above, but Gravatars are first cached
> on MusicBrainz servers. This will cause an extra overhead on the
> servers, as at some point we have to update all our cached copies. I'm
> generally against this idea, for that reason…
>
> * Use a hot-linked Gravatar, and support custom image uploads.
>
> What do people think – which of these should we use?
>


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Re: Gravatar support

Jan van Thiel
In reply to this post by Oliver Charles
2009/4/16 Oliver Charles <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
>
> Rob has just finished work on Gravatar support, and it has now been
> merged onto the test servers (see [1] for an example).
>
> While most people are generally for Gravatar support, but a few people
> have shown some concern over it. So this presents us with 3 options:
>
> * Mandatory Gravatars for all users with email addresses. Gravatars
> will not show if the user does not have an email address. This is the
> current solution.
>
> * Optional Gravatar support - server Gravatars by hot-linking, but
> allow users to specify whether they want Gravatar support on or off.
>
> * Mirrored Gravatar support - as above, but Gravatars are first cached
> on MusicBrainz servers. This will cause an extra overhead on the
> servers, as at some point we have to update all our cached copies. I'm
> generally against this idea, for that reason…
>
> * Use a hot-linked Gravatar, and support custom image uploads.
>
> What do people think – which of these should we use?

Option 2, hot-linking.

Jan

P.S. There are 3 kinds of people: those that can count, and those that can't.

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Re: Gravatar support

Philip Jägenstedt
In reply to this post by Oliver Charles
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Oliver Charles
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Rob has just finished work on Gravatar support, and it has now been
> merged onto the test servers (see [1] for an example).
>
> While most people are generally for Gravatar support, but a few people
> have shown some concern over it. So this presents us with 3 options:
>
> * Mandatory Gravatars for all users with email addresses. Gravatars
> will not show if the user does not have an email address. This is the
> current solution.
>
> * Optional Gravatar support - server Gravatars by hot-linking, but
> allow users to specify whether they want Gravatar support on or off.
>
> * Mirrored Gravatar support - as above, but Gravatars are first cached
> on MusicBrainz servers. This will cause an extra overhead on the
> servers, as at some point we have to update all our cached copies. I'm
> generally against this idea, for that reason…
>
> * Use a hot-linked Gravatar, and support custom image uploads.
>
> What do people think – which of these should we use?

I'd prefer them to be optional but served by MusicBrainz server unless
that's too much work/bandwidth.

Philip

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Re: Gravatar support

Oliver Charles
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'd prefer them to be optional but served by MusicBrainz server unless
> that's too much work/bandwidth.

The main issue I see with that, is we then need to cache images, and
we also need to periodically update the images (so that's one more
cron job). Unless you mean served by MusicBrainz, and having nothing
to do with Gravatar.

--
    Oliver Charles / aCiD2

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Re: Gravatar support

Age Bosma-3
In reply to this post by Oliver Charles
Oliver Charles wrote:
>
> * Use a hot-linked Gravatar, and support custom image uploads.
>

What do you mean by 'custom image uploads'? Uploading an image to MB
circumventing Gravatar completely?
If that's the case than I'm for this option if the hot-linking part is
the same as option 2. I, for one, will not be using Gravatar.

I'm wondering why OpenID wasn't implemented instead. General login and
avatar support in one go. I know there are objections against the
general login part but the same can be said about the general avatar bit.

Age

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Re: Gravatar support

Age Bosma-3
In reply to this post by Oliver Charles
Oliver Charles wrote:
>
> * Use a hot-linked Gravatar, and support custom image uploads.
>

What do you mean by 'custom image uploads'? Uploading an image to MB
circumventing Gravatar completely?
If that's the case than I'm for this option if the hot-linking part is
the same as option 2. I, for one, will not be using Gravatar.

I'm wondering why OpenID wasn't implemented instead. General login and
avatar support in one go. I know there are objections against the
general login part but the same can be said about the general avatar bit.

Age

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Re: Gravatar support

Oliver Charles
In reply to this post by Age Bosma-3
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Age Bosma <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What do you mean by 'custom image uploads'? Uploading an image to MB
> circumventing Gravatar completely?
> If that's the case than I'm for this option if the hot-linking part is
> the same as option 2. I, for one, will not be using Gravatar.

Yes, it would allow users to say "use this avatar or use my Gravatar"

> I'm wondering why OpenID wasn't implemented instead. General login and
> avatar support in one go. I know there are objections against the
> general login part but the same can be said about the general avatar bit.

OpenID needs more discussion, and I believe this was at least thought
that it wouldn't require discussion :) From the feedback though, I'm
probably going to revert adding that feature, and talk to Rob about
it.

Thanks for the feedback all!

--
    Oliver Charles / aCiD2

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Re: Gravatar support

Nikolai Prokoschenko
Administrator
In reply to this post by Oliver Charles
Oliver Charles wrote:

> While most people are generally for Gravatar support, but a few people
> have shown some concern over it.

Introducing Gravatar support means we'll have to go down that path further,
i.e. introducing support for Pavatar, OpenID's avatars and possible hundred
other things, just like we've had Twitter and immediately afterwards
identi.ca. We should see where our focus is. Nevertheless, it is very nice
to see MB keeping pace at current developments on the Web and doesn't try to
be jack of all trades by using services better suited for particular
purposes.

> * Mandatory Gravatars for all users with email addresses. Gravatars
> will not show if the user does not have an email address. This is the
> current solution.

Sucks. Gravatar support is something a user might not even be aware of and
we should ask him at least once.

> * Optional Gravatar support - server Gravatars by hot-linking, but
> allow users to specify whether they want Gravatar support on or off.

Better.

> * Mirrored Gravatar support - as above, but Gravatars are first cached
> on MusicBrainz servers. This will cause an extra overhead on the
> servers, as at some point we have to update all our cached copies. I'm
> generally against this idea, for that reason…

Against it since a Gravatar is developed not to be cached.

> * Use a hot-linked Gravatar, and support custom image uploads.

+ option to turn gravatar off
+ hotlinking a custom URL

Then it'd be fine.

Nikolai.



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Re: Gravatar support

Philip Jägenstedt
In reply to this post by Oliver Charles
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Oliver Charles
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I'd prefer them to be optional but served by MusicBrainz server unless
>> that's too much work/bandwidth.
>
> The main issue I see with that, is we then need to cache images, and
> we also need to periodically update the images (so that's one more
> cron job). Unless you mean served by MusicBrainz, and having nothing
> to do with Gravatar.

Ok, I need to figure out what a Gravatar is before expressing a
preference here...

Philip

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Re: Gravatar support

Kuno Woudt
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 09:58:38PM +0200, Philip Jägenstedt wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Oliver Charles
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> I'd prefer them to be optional but served by MusicBrainz server unless
> >> that's too much work/bandwidth.
> >
> > The main issue I see with that, is we then need to cache images, and
> > we also need to periodically update the images (so that's one more
> > cron job). Unless you mean served by MusicBrainz, and having nothing
> > to do with Gravatar.
>
> Ok, I need to figure out what a Gravatar is before expressing a
> preference here...

There are some privacy issues.  Because musicbrainz is/was considering
using them, I actually tried to link up some user accounts on different
sites based on their gravatar.  

I've written a blog post about the issues I see and my quick attempt
to exploid them a bit, please have a look:

http://320x200.org/post.py/2009/gravatar.txt

-- kuno / warp.


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Re: Gravatar support

Robert Kaye
Administrator

On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Kuno Woudt wrote:

> I've written a blog post about the issues I see and my quick attempt
> to exploid them a bit, please have a look:
>
> http://320x200.org/post.py/2009/gravatar.txt


"So, to conclude. If you are running a site which uses gravatars,  
please allow users to turn them off,"

Well, since I'm on a rally to get rid of preferences, I'm certainly  
not adding one for this.

Oliver: Please yank the Gravatar support so we can be done with this.

--

--ruaok      A village in Texas has its idiot back!

Robert Kaye     --     [hidden email]     --    http://mayhem-chaos.net


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