How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

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How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

MeinDummy
Hi,

I was wondering how releases like http://www.discogs.com/release/540973 should be represented in MB.

Disc 1 is a hybrid SACD, i.e. there is a "regular" CD layer which can be replayed in a standard CD drive and from which a DiscID can be generated. The other layer contains the same audio (i.e. the same stereo mixes) and a 5.1 mix in SACD format.
Disc 2 is a DVD with a menu where you can choose between the album in stereo or in 5.1, 3 videos (with stereo sound) or a photo gallery.

Currently it looks like this: https://musicbrainz.org/release/d502300a-494d-42f0-a63c-b66581116f87/ 

My suggestion is to change this to a 5 media release:
1.) CD / SACD stereo, 12 tracks
2.) SACD multichannel, 12 tracks
3.) DVD stereo, 12 tracks
4.) DVD multichannel, 12 tracks
5.) DVD video, 3 tracks (or 4 including [photo gallery] ???)
The tracklists of 1 and 3 and of 2 and 4 would be identical.

BTW, stereo and 5.1 were mastered by different people in different studios. That's why, I think we need mastering credits at medium level at least (or allow them again on recording level if that's not possible).

Also BTW, part of this topic has already been discussed in the past but there was no real conclusion: http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/Hybrid-SACDs-td3885610.html

Cheers,

Christian (MD)
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

MeinDummy
There is more like this. All ten of the earlier Depeche Mode albums were re-released in a similar format.
 
Most of the corresponding MB releases have the SACD split into 2 tracklists/discs as I suggested but the DVDs are usually all-in-one.

Some of the DVDs have tracks in this order:
- documentary
- stereo recordings of the album tracks
- 5.1 recordings of the album tracks
- stereo recordings of the bonus live tracks
- 5.1 recordings of the bonus live tracks
- stereo recordings of the additional stereo-only bonus tracks
example: https://musicbrainz.org/release/d4f4bbfb-2782-3134-9827-1fba77d000e1

I'd change that to:
3.) DVD stereo, album + bonus live + additional bonus = 17 tracks
4.) DVD multichannel, album + bonus live = 14 tracks
5.) DVD video, 1 track
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

MeinDummy
Side-note concerning the mastering AR: a re-mastered AR (or a re- attribute to the existing mastering AR) are missing...
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Philipp Wolfer-2
In reply to this post by MeinDummy


2014-11-27 10:50 GMT+01:00 MeinDummy <[hidden email]>:
There is more like this. All ten of the earlier Depeche Mode albums were
re-released in a similar format.

Most of the corresponding MB releases have the SACD split into 2
tracklists/discs as I suggested but the DVDs are usually all-in-one.

I can see the point in splitting the CD / SACD part. But I would keep the DVD as one medium. As I understand it, it is a video DVD with a normal menu were you can select the different features. I suppose the audio tracks are technically also videos (typically there is some light animation playing or just a still image shown), and there are some bonus music video tracks (one in this case). Why should this content, which is all part of a single DVD medium, be splitted on MB? If we split every release that consists of different "parts" we would also need to split a couple of CD releases because the content is strctured in some way (e.g. "album track" and "unreleased bonus tracks").




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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

ListMyCDs.com
In reply to this post by MeinDummy
I see little benefits for splitting hybrid SACD discs to multiple
mediums. We currently have "Hybrid SACD" as a medium format which
already means there's also standard CD layer available. It could also be
extremely confusing to see "1xCD, 2xSACD" when you would have only one
disc in your hand. It's also confusing to see same tracks multiple times
when release in your hand lists them only once.

There's some cases when we aren't able to store all data like when there
could be another mixer for multichannel material. Still for most of us
it's just easier to behave like there's no SACD-layers. Like these would
be standard CD's. Disc ID are for CD and ISRC codes and fingerprints are
usually ripped from CD layers. People commonly merge recordings of these
with stereo recordings.

When MB GUI doesn't support different layers of medium I see no point of
trying to store data with separate mediums. It's usually just confusing
for random MB visitors and matching data with other databases would get
more complex.

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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

MeinDummy
In reply to this post by Philipp Wolfer-2
Philipp Wolfer-2 wrote
Why should this content, which is all part of a single DVD medium, be splitted on MB?
Because it's more consistent with the way the SACD is represented.

Philipp Wolfer-2 wrote
If we split every release that consists of different "parts" we would also need to split a couple of CD releases because the content is strctured in some way (e.g. "album track" and "unreleased bonus tracks").
This is not really the same.
The structure for these CD releases is just in the booklet. There'll still be a single DiscID.
On the DM DVDs, there is a DVD menu with separate submenus for the stereo and 5.1 versions of the album.
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Philipp Wolfer-2
2014-11-27 12:04 GMT+01:00 MeinDummy <[hidden email]>:
Philipp Wolfer-2 wrote
> Why should this content, which is all part of a single DVD medium, be
> splitted on MB?

Because it's more consistent with the way the SACD is represented.


Does this imply that the exact same DVD should be entered differently if it was released separately or together with a normal CD instead of the SACD?
 

Philipp Wolfer-2 wrote
> If we split every release that consists of different "parts" we would also
> need to split a couple of CD releases because the content is strctured in
> some way (e.g. "album track" and "unreleased bonus tracks").

This is not really the same.
The structure for these CD releases is just in the booklet. There'll still
be a single DiscID.
On the DM DVDs, there is a DVD menu with separate submenus for the stereo
and 5.1 versions of the album.

I don't see much difference in this really. The exact same DVD layout (same tracks and chapters) could have a completely different menu structure. It's just the view of the creators of this release how they see the structure of their work. The argument to follow the layout of the SACD is strange. I have seen releases were there is 1 CD and 2 LPs, the CD and LPs containing the same audio content. Nobody would propose to split the CD into two "mediums" on MB just to follow the layout of the LPs.

And it is really confusing when 1 DVD disc suddenly shows up as 3 discs on MB. People would actually assume it is a completely different release. As another example take any other DVD release, like this 2 DVD video release:
http://musicbrainz.org/release/c821de73-1867-4ade-9084-d6f7c7c54d8b

In your logic the second disc would be splitted in 3 mediums on MB. I definitely would not look for a 4 DVD release on MB when I know for sure the release contains only 2 discs.

Note: I deliberately focused on the DVD issue here, as I am not sure and don't know enought about the SACD. The CD and SACD layer seem to have different track listings, in this regard it would be somewhat similar to a release where the disc has different content on both sides (I have seen CD + DVD on a single dual sided disc), and even if it is just one disc this can only be entered as two mediums.

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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Cheezmo
I maintain a very large collection of multichannel discs, Hybrid SACD, DVD-Audio, DualDisc, etc. and have extensive experience entering these releases.  I initially started out of the mindset that we should create multiple media for all the various track lists on DVD and Blu-ray but eventually after much debate through edits, etc. came to the conclusion that representing them as one medium makes the most sense.

Hybrid SACD and DualDisc represent a special challenge and should be handled differently because they have a CD element which can and should have a discid attached.  That is why they are often entered as two mediums, one with the CD content (that can have a discid attached), and one with the content that is on the DVD side (in the DualDisc example) or on the SACD multichannel layer in the Hybrid SACD case.   For standard SACD and DVD/DVD-Audio/Blu-ray releases only one medium is used since there is no discid involved.

The way to make DVD’s and Blu-rays with multiple tracklists, etc. work is by using ETI.  There are some extreme examples recently with Blu-ray releases of XTC and Yes albums that have as many of 5 different versions of the album on one medium (new stereo mix, 5.1 mix, original mix, quad mix, archive master, etc.).  By including ETI with all tracks for which there are multiple “versions” with the same name, it is very clear what is what.

Here is an example of a Blu-ray with a crazy amount of tracks, but with the ETI it makes perfect sense…


To summarize, after extensive experience editing this type of release and debating with various editors over several years, I’m convinced that the single medium with appropriate eti is the way to go (with the DualDisc and Hybrid SACD discid examples being exceptions).

At some point in the future it would be nice if MB supported multiple named tracklists on a single medium (which the ability to attach a discid to a tracklist?) or something but I feel very strongly this is the best way to go for now.


On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:24 AM, Philipp Wolfer <[hidden email]> wrote:

2014-11-27 12:04 GMT+01:00 MeinDummy <[hidden email]>:
Philipp Wolfer-2 wrote
> Why should this content, which is all part of a single DVD medium, be
> splitted on MB?

Because it's more consistent with the way the SACD is represented.


Does this imply that the exact same DVD should be entered differently if it was released separately or together with a normal CD instead of the SACD?
 

Philipp Wolfer-2 wrote
> If we split every release that consists of different "parts" we would also
> need to split a couple of CD releases because the content is strctured in
> some way (e.g. "album track" and "unreleased bonus tracks").

This is not really the same.
The structure for these CD releases is just in the booklet. There'll still
be a single DiscID.
On the DM DVDs, there is a DVD menu with separate submenus for the stereo
and 5.1 versions of the album.

I don't see much difference in this really. The exact same DVD layout (same tracks and chapters) could have a completely different menu structure. It's just the view of the creators of this release how they see the structure of their work. The argument to follow the layout of the SACD is strange. I have seen releases were there is 1 CD and 2 LPs, the CD and LPs containing the same audio content. Nobody would propose to split the CD into two "mediums" on MB just to follow the layout of the LPs.

And it is really confusing when 1 DVD disc suddenly shows up as 3 discs on MB. People would actually assume it is a completely different release. As another example take any other DVD release, like this 2 DVD video release:
http://musicbrainz.org/release/c821de73-1867-4ade-9084-d6f7c7c54d8b

In your logic the second disc would be splitted in 3 mediums on MB. I definitely would not look for a 4 DVD release on MB when I know for sure the release contains only 2 discs.

Note: I deliberately focused on the DVD issue here, as I am not sure and don't know enought about the SACD. The CD and SACD layer seem to have different track listings, in this regard it would be somewhat similar to a release where the disc has different content on both sides (I have seen CD + DVD on a single dual sided disc), and even if it is just one disc this can only be entered as two mediums.
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Cheezmo
In reply to this post by MeinDummy
The only reason the SACD is split into separate mediums is so that the discid can be attached to the CD component.

Non-hybrid SACD with stereo and multichannel mixes are entered as a single medium, since they do not have this issue. Example: Jeff Beck Blow by Blow... http://musicbrainz.org/release/d0dc531c-9452-4855-af3f-676597eb3711


> On Nov 27, 2014, at 5:04 AM, MeinDummy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Philipp Wolfer-2 wrote
>> Why should this content, which is all part of a single DVD medium, be
>> splitted on MB?
>
> Because it's more consistent with the way the SACD is represented.


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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

ListMyCDs.com
On 27.11.2014 15:55, Steve Martin wrote:
 > The only reason the SACD is split into separate mediums is so that
the discid can be attached to the CD component.

If CD TOC is attached to hybrid SACD everyone is still able to
understand it being related to CD layer of it. What benefit there is to
add another medium just because of CD TOC?

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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Cheezmo
It is only necessary if the Hybrid SACD has mulichannel mixes.  Those are separate recordings and need to be included on the release.

So, yes, I should have mentioned that.  If you have a Hybrid SACD with only stereo tracks and the CD and SACD tracks are all the same recordings (there are rare cases where they aren't) then a Hybrid SACD can and should be represented as a single medium...


SACD (stereo only) - single medium
SACD (stereo & multichannel) - single medium, eti to distinguish multichannel mixes.

Hybrid SACD (stereo only) - single medium
Hybrid SACD (stereo & multichannel) - two Hybrid SACD mediums ("CD / SACD stereo" and "SACD multichannel")

DualDisc - two DualDisc mediums ("CD side" and "DVD side")

DVD/Blu-ray - one medium with eti to distinguish tracks with the same name.

That is my shot at summarizing how I think it should be done (and how it is mostly done, I've been actively working on getting to this model on my collections).

I think most people would understand having two mediums for a DualDisc (there are two physical sides usually labeled CD side and DVD side)

The only one that is potentially confusing is the Hybrid SACD w/multichannel case where it shows 2 X Hybrid SACD and there is of course only one disc.  But, until there is another way to attach a discid to these releases I think it is the best we can do for now.

> On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:06 AM, ListMyCDs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 27.11.2014 15:55, Steve Martin wrote:
>> The only reason the SACD is split into separate mediums is so that
> the discid can be attached to the CD component.
>
> If CD TOC is attached to hybrid SACD everyone is still able to
> understand it being related to CD layer of it. What benefit there is to
> add another medium just because of CD TOC?
>
> --
> ListMyCDs / Timo Martikainen
>
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

MeinDummy
In reply to this post by ListMyCDs.com
ListMyCDs.com wrote
There's some cases when we aren't able to store all data like when there could be another mixer for multichannel material. Still for most of us it's just easier to behave like there's no SACD-layers.
So you propose to leave out some of the tracks on the physical media in the MB release? I.e. the entire SACD layer and maybe part of the DVD would be omitted?
I don't agree and after some extrapolation of the other replies I think the others disagree as well.
IMO, at least all the audio tracks should be included in the MB release. And now that recordings have the video attribute I think other multimedia content should be there as well (still not sure about that photo gallery, though).
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

MeinDummy
In reply to this post by Cheezmo
Thank you for your answers so far.

In response to the all-in-one DVD part of the discussion I just wanted to point out that splitting single physical media into separate tracklists is not so out of this world. Some of us agreed here to do that for SACDs and we also do it to add some logical structure to digital media releases (see https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Medium "Digital ... releases ... should be entered as several mediums if they are officially divided in several "discs".)

However, I understand and partially agree to putting the entire DVD content into a single medium.
The biggest drawback is the lack of a logical structure which could be overcome in the future as Cheezmo said if MB supported multiple named tracklists on a single medium.

But if we put the entire DVD content into a single medium wouldn't it be more consistent to split hybrid SACDs by layers, i.e. such that the medium for the SACD layer would contain the stereo and the 5.1 tracks?
Currently, we split them by audio formats. Half of the SACD layer content is represented by the "CD / SACD stereo" disc and the other half by the "SACD multichannel" disc. (Why don't these represent the same content on the DVD as well?).

The release split by layers would look like this:
1.) medium: hybrid SACD, title "CD layer", 12 stereo tracks
2.) medium: hybrid SACD, title "SACD layer", 12 stereo tracks + 12 multichannel tracks
3.) medium: DVD, title "DVD" or none, 12 stereo tracks + 12 multichannel tracks + 3 videos (+ [photo gallery] ???)
This way, we would have every single piece of audio or video represented by one track in one of the tracklists.

BTW, ETI like "5.1 mix" should be removed from the recording titles and added to the disambiguation comments instead. But it should remain in the track titles. Otherwise, the all-in-one DVD tracklists would be very confusing.
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
In reply to this post by MeinDummy
I personally see little reason to have a second medium for the SACD, except in the not that common case where the tracklists actually differ and we need to store that somehow (as in, they have a different number of tracks or whatever, not just as in they're 5.1). Most hybrid I've seen entered just has one medium to represent both sides and I don't really see that as a big issue, definitely not as bad as making up an extra medium that then makes people confused because they only have one disc. I do know the guidelines claim 5.1 should be different recordings, but I'd say there's a limit to what is reasonable in order to follow that. 

For the DVD, I'd say the example release in the first post looks pretty good already (I might have skipped the photo gallery though). Again it's a case of "does it make sense to do all twice for the 5.1" and again my initial reaction is "not really" - but in any case, the other way I could see it is as stereo, then 5.1, then videos, but still all in one medium and with ETI.

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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

ListMyCDs.com
In reply to this post by MeinDummy
On 28.11.2014 11:47, MeinDummy wrote:
> So you propose to leave out some of the tracks on the physical media in the
> MB release? I.e. the entire SACD layer and maybe part of the DVD would be
> omitted?

For me
http://musicbrainz.org/release/aaf8db6f-a285-40ef-9970-56c3d7da16f9 is
currently enough to represent this release. MB has same amount of tracks
like we see on release cover. It's also same amount of tracks you get if
you rip this release (CD layer) with your computer so it's more useful
for tagging. Most of us are able to understand that because it's Hybrid
SACD these same tracks are not only in SACD but also in CD format. We
don't need to duplicate tracks and have 16 or 24 tracks or 2-3 mediums
on tracklist to understand this. Annotation could include "same tracks
available in 3 different mixes" if necessary.

We could have 3 mediums with 24 tracks/recordings for this release (CD,
SACD Stereo, SACD Surround). But for what can you use those recordings?
You can't merge some of them with other recordings because of different
mixes. In this case recordings would just repeat the same data,
duration, performers and have exactly same relationships. We might not
be able to include some engineers to recordings but these can still be
mentioned on annotations or linked to release level. We already have
similar situation with CDs which are mastered by multiple persons (and
can't store information on recording level).

> I don't agree and after some extrapolation of the other replies I think the
> others disagree as well.

If we don't count you and me, this discussion has now posts from 2 other
editors. MusicBrainz has almost 1,3 million registered editors. Earlier
topic had opinions of 5 editors.

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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Cheezmo
In reply to this post by MeinDummy
It is possible to rip both stereo and multichannel and tag them both with musicbrainz so I would be really disappointed if it was decided not to include all the tracks that are on the release.

You can also rip videos from DVD/Blu-ray and tag them so of course would like them included as well.

I haven't been adding photo galleries, interactive features like that are kind of odd birds that we can't really represent (and it is hard to imagine anyone trying to rip/tag them, but maybe there is a way).

If you don't feel like adding the SACD layer, I don't think you should let it prevent you from adding a reelase, but please don't vote against others that add them. As you say, is very difficult to enter all the different versions of tracks etc on some of these large SACD/DVD/Blu-ray releases, and while I have taken on the challenge, it isn't something I would figure most people would want to deal with.  More important to get the release in there, even if incomplete, and let someone finish it later.

> On Nov 28, 2014, at 3:47 AM, MeinDummy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ListMyCDs.com wrote
>> There's some cases when we aren't able to store all data like when there
>> could be another mixer for multichannel material. Still for most of us
>> it's just easier to behave like there's no SACD-layers.
>
> So you propose to leave out some of the tracks on the physical media in the
> MB release? I.e. the entire SACD layer and maybe part of the DVD would be
> omitted?
> I don't agree and after some extrapolation of the other replies I think the
> others disagree as well.
> IMO, at least all the audio tracks should be included in the MB release. And
> now that recordings have the video attribute I think other multimedia
> content should be there as well (still not sure about that photo gallery,
> though).
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-enter-hybrid-SACD-and-DVD-audio-video-discs-tp4669680p4669698.html
> Sent from the MusicBrainz - Style mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Cheezmo
In reply to this post by ListMyCDs.com

> For me
> http://musicbrainz.org/release/aaf8db6f-a285-40ef-9970-56c3d7da16f9 is
> currently enough to represent this release. MB has same amount of tracks
> like we see on release cover. It's also same amount of tracks you get if
> you rip this release (CD layer) with your computer so it's more useful
> for tagging. Most of us are able to understand that because it's Hybrid
> SACD these same tracks are not only in SACD but also in CD format. We
> don't need to duplicate tracks and have 16 or 24 tracks or 2-3 mediums
> on tracklist to understand this. Annotation could include "same tracks
> available in 3 different mixes" if necessary.

What if someone rips the stereo and the multichannel tracks separately and wants to tag them (you can rip SACD's with an old PS3 and the correct software)?  In that case listing them once is not sufficient.  The multichannel mixes are unique recordings also, and leaving them off is not representing all the tracks that are on the release, and leaving the user no way to tag them.

>
> We could have 3 mediums with 24 tracks/recordings for this release (CD,
> SACD Stereo, SACD Surround). But for what can you use those recordings?
> You can't merge some of them with other recordings because of different
> mixes. In this case recordings would just repeat the same data,
> duration, performers and have exactly same relationships. We might not
> be able to include some engineers to recordings but these can still be
> mentioned on annotations or linked to release level. We already have
> similar situation with CDs which are mastered by multiple persons (and
> can't store information on recording level).

The stereo recordings can be merged.  Your insight that the multichannel mixes can not be merged is exactly why they need to be included.  They are separate recordings.  You don't want to leave recordings off a release if you are trying to represent its content.


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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Cheezmo
In reply to this post by Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

On Nov 28, 2014, at 4:41 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:

I personally see little reason to have a second medium for the SACD, except in the not that common case where the tracklists actually differ and we need to store that somehow (as in, they have a different number of tracks or whatever, not just as in they're 5.1). Most hybrid I've seen entered just has one medium to represent both sides and I don't really see that as a big issue, definitely not as bad as making up an extra medium that then makes people confused because they only have one disc. I do know the guidelines claim 5.1 should be different recordings, but I'd say there's a limit to what is reasonable in order to follow that. 

I would really prefer to have a single medium for all SACD, but in the hybrid case people really want to be able to use the discid for the CD layer which requires separating them.

5.1 mixes absolutely must be included.  They are separate recordings, and can be ripped and tagged with PIcard.


For the DVD, I'd say the example release in the first post looks pretty good already (I might have skipped the photo gallery though). Again it's a case of "does it make sense to do all twice for the 5.1" and again my initial reaction is "not really" - but in any case, the other way I could see it is as stereo, then 5.1, then videos, but still all in one medium and with ETI.

Again, the 5.1 mixes are unique recordings, can be ripped and tagged and need to be included to accurately represent what recordings are on the release.

People can and do rip SACD (using old PS3’s or in analog setups), they also rip DVD and Blu-ray extracting all the different mixes and videos and not being able to tag all that content with Picard would be a crime.

--
Steve Martin




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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Cheezmo
In reply to this post by MeinDummy

> On Nov 28, 2014, at 3:47 AM, MeinDummy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But if we put the entire DVD content into a single medium wouldn't it be
> more consistent to split hybrid SACDs by layers, i.e. such that the medium
> for the SACD layer would contain the stereo and the 5.1 tracks?
> Currently, we split them by audio formats. Half of the SACD layer content is
> represented by the "CD / SACD stereo" disc and the other half by the "SACD
> multichannel" disc. (Why don't these represent the same content on the DVD
> as well?).
>
> The release split by layers would look like this:
> 1.) medium: hybrid SACD, title "CD layer", 12 stereo tracks
> 2.) medium: hybrid SACD, title "SACD layer", 12 stereo tracks + 12
> multichannel tracks
> 3.) medium: DVD, title "DVD" or none, 12 stereo tracks + 12 multichannel
> tracks + 3 videos (+ [photo gallery] ???)

I started off trying to do SACD's that way but got a lot of voter push back.  It is apparently more acceptable for DualDiscs where the "sides" feel more like separate mediums.  The "logical" separation of CD and SACD "layers" doesn't sit as well with people but makes sense to me.

I am fine with it either way, the cases where a separate stereo track list is required for the Hybrid SACD (due to different recordings or track lists) is pretty small so your case 2.) is seldom needed, but it doesn't do any harm other than being a little more difficult to enter and does accurately represent the structure of the "hybrid" medium.

Think about what hybrid means, it is really two different mediums combined in one physical object.  If the DualDisc people had figured out how to do it on one side (with dual focussing lasers or something) they would probably be done the same way.

> BTW, ETI like "5.1 mix" should be removed from the recording titles and
> added to the disambiguation comments instead. But it should remain in the
> track titles. Otherwise, the all-in-one DVD tracklists would be very
> confusing.

I've tried to do that in the past but nikki (and others) usually vote against it because the recording name should match the majority of the track titles.  My argument is that since this is "pseudo-eti, it really doesn't belong on the recordings, but I have yet to win that battle.


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Re: How to enter hybrid SACD and DVD audio+video discs?

Frederic Da Vitoria
2014-11-28 15:24 GMT+01:00 Steve Martin <[hidden email]>:

> On Nov 28, 2014, at 3:47 AM, MeinDummy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But if we put the entire DVD content into a single medium wouldn't it be
> more consistent to split hybrid SACDs by layers, i.e. such that the medium
> for the SACD layer would contain the stereo and the 5.1 tracks?
> Currently, we split them by audio formats. Half of the SACD layer content is
> represented by the "CD / SACD stereo" disc and the other half by the "SACD
> multichannel" disc. (Why don't these represent the same content on the DVD
> as well?).
>
> The release split by layers would look like this:
> 1.) medium: hybrid SACD, title "CD layer", 12 stereo tracks
> 2.) medium: hybrid SACD, title "SACD layer", 12 stereo tracks + 12
> multichannel tracks
> 3.) medium: DVD, title "DVD" or none, 12 stereo tracks + 12 multichannel
> tracks + 3 videos (+ [photo gallery] ???)

I started off trying to do SACD's that way but got a lot of voter push back.  It is apparently more acceptable for DualDiscs where the "sides" feel more like separate mediums.  The "logical" separation of CD and SACD "layers" doesn't sit as well with people but makes sense to me.

I am fine with it either way, the cases where a separate stereo track list is required for the Hybrid SACD (due to different recordings or track lists) is pretty small so your case 2.) is seldom needed, but it doesn't do any harm other than being a little more difficult to enter and does accurately represent the structure of the "hybrid" medium.

Think about what hybrid means, it is really two different mediums combined in one physical object.  If the DualDisc people had figured out how to do it on one side (with dual focussing lasers or something) they would probably be done the same way.

IIRC, I have such a Dual Disc. After all, most DVDs are already double layers.

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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