Possible move of translations

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Possible move of translations

Ian McEwen
Hi -- there are some definite problems with transifex that people have brought up and it seems to not be well-integrated with how people want to be doing things. Earlier today via RSS I saw http://blog.cihar.com/archives/2013/02/08/hosted-weblate-and-new-website/ and I'm wondering what people would think of us moving our translation stuff to weblate. It's my understanding that weblate fixes a few of our issues (perhaps most notably, weblate supports checks of various things, and it's more openly developed so it would be easier for me to contribute code fixes to them).

They have a demo site at http://demo.weblate.org -- could folks try it out and see what they think of weblate?

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Re: Possible move of translations

"Frederik “Freso” S. Olesen"
Den 09-02-2013 04:07, Ian McEwen skrev:
> They have a demo site at http://demo.weblate.org -- could folks try
> it out and see what they think of weblate?

I'm still messing around with it, but a few first impressions:

Good/better:
A) They're up front that one's name and e-mail address will be somewhat
public (it says so on the registration page for the project sites). It's
good that they state this so clearly, so translators are less likely to
be surprised by this, although an option to register with a proper
e-mail and use a bogus one for submissions/crediting purposes would be
better. (I haven't actually made an account yet, so not sure if this is
already possible. :))
B) Translations stored directly in Git. And we all know Git is the only
proper way to handle any data. http://git.willfixeverything.com/ \o/

Bad/worse:
a) There seems to be no nifty command line client to help automate a lot
of the workflow. For translators, this of course isn't the biggest
issue, but as a translator-developer, I really like(d) the tx client,
despite its shortcomings. However, coupled with B) above, perhaps
translations can be added as submodules?
b) Seems less mature. Both reflected in the number of supported projects
(granted, MusicBrainz could be an early adopter her), but also in how
polished the interface is.
c) Transifex is one user/login with access to a wider ecosystem. Weblate
seems to be one site/setup per project, meaning your account will only
be usable for the one project and you'll have to sign up for other
projects separately. (I'm somewhat involved with e.g. XBMC and
ArchLinux/pacman translating besides MB stuff on Transifex.)
d) There does not seem to be an automatic "translation memory" function
(unless that's what "MyMemory" is).

The same/similar:
*) Both are written in Python.
*) Both have their code available in Git on GitHub.
*) Both support showing translations from similar languages.

Unsure about:
1) How does the workflow look from adding code in the repository to
updating the strings on weblate to getting the updated translations back
into the code? See also a).
2) How does it handle user permissions/project ownership?

Conclusion:
None yet. However, I kind of do like their actual translation interface
more than Transifex', but there could still be more neatness added to
it, and Transifex' isn't *that* bad.

--
Namasté,
Frederik "Freso" S. Olesen <http://freso.dk/>
MB:   https://musicbrainz.org/user/Freso
Wiki: https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Freso

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Re: Possible move of translations

Ian McEwen
On Sat, Feb 09, 2013 at 02:42:54PM +0100, Frederik "Freso" S. Olesen wrote:

> Den 09-02-2013 04:07, Ian McEwen skrev:
> > They have a demo site at http://demo.weblate.org -- could folks try
> > it out and see what they think of weblate?
>
> I'm still messing around with it, but a few first impressions:
>
> Good/better:
> A) They're up front that one's name and e-mail address will be somewhat
> public (it says so on the registration page for the project sites). It's
> good that they state this so clearly, so translators are less likely to
> be surprised by this, although an option to register with a proper
> e-mail and use a bogus one for submissions/crediting purposes would be
> better. (I haven't actually made an account yet, so not sure if this is
> already possible. :))
As I understand it, that's only one option -- you can also configure a specific email to use for *all commits* for a project, which is probably what we'd do for privacy's sake. I don't know what attribution this provides, however -- I think the ideal situation would be it uses the actual person's name, but does not reveal their email.

> B) Translations stored directly in Git. And we all know Git is the only
> proper way to handle any data. http://git.willfixeverything.com/ \o/
>
> Bad/worse:
> a) There seems to be no nifty command line client to help automate a lot
> of the workflow. For translators, this of course isn't the biggest
> issue, but as a translator-developer, I really like(d) the tx client,
> despite its shortcomings. However, coupled with B) above, perhaps
> translations can be added as submodules?

This is because the 'command line client' is pulling from a git repository. No need to custom clients when you're using an existing protocol. No need to even add translations as submodules -- it commits directly to the appropriate location *in your actual source tree*. For example, clone git://git.weblate.org/freeplane-1-2-x.git and you'll see it's far from just translations :)

> b) Seems less mature. Both reflected in the number of supported projects
> (granted, MusicBrainz could be an early adopter her), but also in how
> polished the interface is.

Note that there's several more projects on https://l10n.cihar.com/... but now that I look you're the last translator there. So you may have noticed that :P

In any case, it's based on translate toolkit, which can read and import a wide variety of translation formats -- it's not adopted by all that many actual projects yet, I guess, but it's quite flexible. It certainly supports simple stuff with po files like we're doing!

> c) Transifex is one user/login with access to a wider ecosystem. Weblate
> seems to be one site/setup per project, meaning your account will only
> be usable for the one project and you'll have to sign up for other
> projects separately. (I'm somewhat involved with e.g. XBMC and
> ArchLinux/pacman translating besides MB stuff on Transifex.)

This is something I was curious about -- I've personally never gotten much use out of the shared ecosystem in transifex, but I'm also not much of a translator :) so I was wondering if others did, and how much this mattered to them. Apparently the answer for you is "somewhat".

> d) There does not seem to be an automatic "translation memory" function
> (unless that's what "MyMemory" is).
>

MyMemory seems to be a *joint* translation memory system, actually. Which is interesting. Weblate does support a concept of a glossary of terms, though I haven't played with how well-integrated it is -- transifex has a similar feature but it's hidden away and difficult to use.

> The same/similar:
> *) Both are written in Python.
> *) Both have their code available in Git on GitHub.
> *) Both support showing translations from similar languages.
>

Worth noting that weblate is, AFAIK, a lot more open and accessible. While transifex is open source it's a bigger project and it's corporate, which puts some distance between volunteer contributors and actual coding. Weblate, however, is purely volunteer (the author wrote it for his own projects, in the best open source traditions!), as well as a lot smaller as a project. Certainly I see it as possible to contribute to weblate's codebase -- I don't, with transifex; this may be obliviousness on my part, but still. :)

> Unsure about:
> 1) How does the workflow look from adding code in the repository to
> updating the strings on weblate to getting the updated translations back
> into the code? See also a).

Weblate supports a github hook, which in turn pulls in the new .pot files. Getting the updated translations back is merging the appropriate remote branch.

> 2) How does it handle user permissions/project ownership?

Apparently its permissions system is based on django; it seems to only have User and Manager levels. These can be configured on a per-project level, however. Presumably the hosted weblate install will have these sorts of things available.

>
> Conclusion:
> None yet. However, I kind of do like their actual translation interface
> more than Transifex', but there could still be more neatness added to
> it, and Transifex' isn't *that* bad.
>
> --
> Namasté,
> Frederik "Freso" S. Olesen <http://freso.dk/>
> MB:   https://musicbrainz.org/user/Freso
> Wiki: https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/User:Freso
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n
--
Ian McEwen <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>
A262 D5C4 40CB 0E1C 5F24 C3A1 ABED 1ABD 7131 A76F
http://ianmcorvidae.net/

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