RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

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RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
The option to select "chamber" or "symphony" ends up being pretty much a random "well it's on the orchestra name so it will probably be right" pick, and it doesn't really offer any useful info. Can we get rid of it? (I have seen many other classical editors share this opinion of the attribute, but is there anyone who thinks it's actually useful?)

I would like to have an artist type "orchestra" and possibly also "chamber orchestra" and "symphony orchestra", but that's a separate issue :)  It's the only place where this kind of info belongs though IMO.


Ticket is http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-276
Expected RFV date is Jan 3.

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Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

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Re: RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performingorchestra relationship

Brant Gibbard

+1

 

Brant Gibbard
Toronto, ON
http://bgibbard.ca

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
Sent: December-27-13 10:51 AM
To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
Subject: [mb-style] RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performingorchestra relationship

 

The option to select "chamber" or "symphony" ends up being pretty much a random "well it's on the orchestra name so it will probably be right" pick, and it doesn't really offer any useful info. Can we get rid of it? (I have seen many other classical editors share this opinion of the attribute, but is there anyone who thinks it's actually useful?)

 

I would like to have an artist type "orchestra" and possibly also "chamber orchestra" and "symphony orchestra", but that's a separate issue :)  It's the only place where this kind of info belongs though IMO.

 

 

Ticket is http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-276
Expected RFV date is Jan 3.

 

-- 

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren


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Re: RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

Alex Mauer
In reply to this post by Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
On 12/27/2013 09:50 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
> The option to select "chamber" or "symphony" ends up being pretty much a
> random "well it's on the orchestra name so it will probably be right"
> pick, and it doesn't really offer any useful info. Can we get rid of it?
> (I have seen many other classical editors share this opinion of the
> attribute, but is there anyone who thinks it's actually useful?)
>
> I would like to have an artist type "orchestra" and possibly also
> "chamber orchestra" and "symphony orchestra", but that's a separate
> issue :)  It's the only place where this kind of info belongs though IMO.

+1 to all of this.

I think there may be a few cases where a symphony orchestra had a subset
perform as a chamber orchestra but were credited under the same name,
but I think those are rare enough not to be much of a problem. (and at
least there we can note it in the group’s annotation instead of hoping
we get it right in the AR).


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Re: RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

Brant Gibbard
Agreed, there are many orchestras that are a sort of extension of the conductor and don't have a fixed membership (although obviously the conductor is likely often going to bring in people he has worked with before and trusts). These groups often expand or contract wildly depending on the format and instrumentation of the pieces being performed or recorded but are still listed under the same name.

Brant Gibbard
Toronto, ON
http://bgibbard.ca 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alex Mauer
Sent: December-27-13 11:01 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [mb-style] RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

On 12/27/2013 09:50 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren wrote:
> The option to select "chamber" or "symphony" ends up being pretty much
> a random "well it's on the orchestra name so it will probably be right"
> pick, and it doesn't really offer any useful info. Can we get rid of it?
> (I have seen many other classical editors share this opinion of the
> attribute, but is there anyone who thinks it's actually useful?)
>
> I would like to have an artist type "orchestra" and possibly also
> "chamber orchestra" and "symphony orchestra", but that's a separate
> issue :)  It's the only place where this kind of info belongs though IMO.

+1 to all of this.

I think there may be a few cases where a symphony orchestra had a subset perform as a chamber orchestra but were credited under the same name, but I think those are rare enough not to be much of a problem. (and at least there we can note it in the group’s annotation instead of hoping we get it right in the AR).


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Re: RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

Frederic Da Vitoria
In reply to this post by Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
2013/12/27 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>

The option to select "chamber" or "symphony" ends up being pretty much a random "well it's on the orchestra name so it will probably be right" pick, and it doesn't really offer any useful info. Can we get rid of it? (I have seen many other classical editors share this opinion of the attribute, but is there anyone who thinks it's actually useful?)

I would like to have an artist type "orchestra" and possibly also "chamber orchestra" and "symphony orchestra", but that's a separate issue :)  It's the only place where this kind of info belongs though IMO.


Ticket is http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-276
Expected RFV date is Jan 3.

I believe this was meant for example for (unspecified subparts of) symphony orchestras performing as a chamber orchestra of a chamber music score, as opposed to the full orchestra performing an upscaled version of the same score. Not sure I am being quite clear here. And I agree that the implementation was not very easy to understand.As long as this situation is covered in some other way, I agree with removing those attributes.

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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Re: RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

symphonick
Yes, please make this go away.

I'm not sure the situation Frederic describes needs fixing anymore, since different arrangements are different works now?
That said, maybe there should be a "members of group performed" attribute, for situations where the performers are credited in that way.

And a happy new year to all of you.


2013/12/27 Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]>
2013/12/27 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>

The option to select "chamber" or "symphony" ends up being pretty much a random "well it's on the orchestra name so it will probably be right" pick, and it doesn't really offer any useful info. Can we get rid of it? (I have seen many other classical editors share this opinion of the attribute, but is there anyone who thinks it's actually useful?)

I would like to have an artist type "orchestra" and possibly also "chamber orchestra" and "symphony orchestra", but that's a separate issue :)  It's the only place where this kind of info belongs though IMO.


Ticket is http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-276
Expected RFV date is Jan 3.

I believe this was meant for example for (unspecified subparts of) symphony orchestras performing as a chamber orchestra of a chamber music score, as opposed to the full orchestra performing an upscaled version of the same score. Not sure I am being quite clear here. And I agree that the implementation was not very easy to understand.As long as this situation is covered in some other way, I agree with removing those attributes.

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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/symphonick

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Re: RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

Frederic Da Vitoria
2014/1/1 symphonick <[hidden email]>
Yes, please make this go away.

I'm not sure the situation Frederic describes needs fixing anymore, since different arrangements are different works now?
That said, maybe there should be a "members of group performed" attribute, for situations where the performers are credited in that way.

Good idea, a "members of group performed" attribute would be much better, I believe there would be much less chances of it being misused.


And a happy new year to all of you.

Happy new year!

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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Re: RFC STYLE-276: Remove attributes from the performing orchestra relationship

LordSputnik
+1 from me!

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