Re: thoughts on Relationships part II: names, instruments and vocals

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Re: thoughts on Relationships part II: names, instruments and vocals

Jan van Thiel
On 5/7/05, Thomas Tholén <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I vote in favour of adding 'rap' and 'talking' as vocal specifiers.

I agree.

>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapping: "Rapping [...] is a form of
rhyming lyrics spoken rhythmically over musical instruments, with a
musical backdrop of sampling, scratching and mixing by DJs." There are
lots of releases with rap music. I think a lot of them have parts sung
and parts rapped. I would be nice to be able to differentiate between
these different vocal performances.

Spoken word or talking seems a good candidate too. Cabaret (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabaret ) needs distinction between songs
and spoken parts. It's popular in the Netherlands; there are quite a
number of Dutch cabaret artists.

Jan (zout)

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RE: thoughts on Relationships part II: names, instruments and vocals

Cristov Russell
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Jan van Thiel
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 7:18 PM
> To: General discussions about MusicBrainz
> Subject: Re: [mb-users] thoughts on Relationships part II:
> names,instruments and vocals
>
> On 5/7/05, Thomas Tholén <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I vote in favour of adding 'rap' and 'talking' as vocal specifiers.
>
> I agree.
>
> >From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapping: "Rapping [...] is
> a form of
> rhyming lyrics spoken rhythmically over musical instruments,
> with a musical backdrop of sampling, scratching and mixing by
> DJs." There are lots of releases with rap music. I think a
> lot of them have parts sung and parts rapped. I would be nice
> to be able to differentiate between these different vocal
> performances.
>
> Spoken word or talking seems a good candidate too. Cabaret (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabaret ) needs distinction
> between songs and spoken parts. It's popular in the
> Netherlands; there are quite a number of Dutch cabaret artists.
>
> Jan (zout)

I'm in agreement to this if you can say that an artist sang and rapped on a
release and as long as we don't need to further define rap and rhyme.

Cristov (wolfsong)



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Re: thoughts on Relationships part II: names, instruments and vocals

Chris B-2
In reply to this post by Jan van Thiel
noooo! i strongly disagree with this!

- firstly, what's the use? as long as artists are credited as having vocals,
then generally it's easy to place. the only example i can think where having
further vocal descriptors would be when you have more than one vocalist on a
track, but even then a little common sense is normally enough to work out
who's who.
- secondly, definitions of what 'rapping' is (and indeed any contemporary
vocal style) are far too flakey IMO. most modern rnb vocalists drift between
rap and 'normal' singing in the space of one track, and just generally
there's a really blurred line between the two - melody features in a lot of
rapping, so where do you draw the line? singing style isn't something you
can easily classify, like instrument type.
- finally, i think this is entirely different to our current classical
descriptors (baritone/etc) as they are set in stone descriptions of octave
ranges (i don't beleive they should ever be used in relationships with
contemporary singers, however, unless they really do stick to those ranges,
and most don't, even those with classical training - it just doesn't really
work in modern music) and also because it *IS* often useful in working out
which person is doing what in a song - you often get large groups of singers
of different classes (like a sorta vocal orchestra i guess).

spoken word, however, i have no problem with :)

Cheers,
Chris B (Gecks)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan van Thiel" <[hidden email]>
To: "General discussions about MusicBrainz"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mb-users] thoughts on Relationships part II: names,instruments
and vocals


On 5/7/05, Thomas Tholén <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I vote in favour of adding 'rap' and 'talking' as vocal specifiers.

I agree.

>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapping: "Rapping [...] is a form of
rhyming lyrics spoken rhythmically over musical instruments, with a
musical backdrop of sampling, scratching and mixing by DJs." There are
lots of releases with rap music. I think a lot of them have parts sung
and parts rapped. I would be nice to be able to differentiate between
these different vocal performances.

Spoken word or talking seems a good candidate too. Cabaret (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabaret ) needs distinction between songs
and spoken parts. It's popular in the Netherlands; there are quite a
number of Dutch cabaret artists.

Jan (zout)

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RE: thoughts on Relationships part II: names, instruments and vocals

Cristov Russell
> noooo! i strongly disagree with this!
>
> - firstly, what's the use? as long as artists are credited as
> having vocals, then generally it's easy to place. the only
> example i can think where having further vocal descriptors
> would be when you have more than one vocalist on a track, but
> even then a little common sense is normally enough to work
> out who's who.
> - secondly, definitions of what 'rapping' is (and indeed any
> contemporary vocal style) are far too flakey IMO. most modern
> rnb vocalists drift between rap and 'normal' singing in the
> space of one track, and just generally there's a really
> blurred line between the two - melody features in a lot of
> rapping, so where do you draw the line? singing style isn't
> something you can easily classify, like instrument type.
> - finally, i think this is entirely different to our current
> classical descriptors (baritone/etc) as they are set in stone
> descriptions of octave ranges (i don't beleive they should
> ever be used in relationships with contemporary singers,
> however, unless they really do stick to those ranges, and
> most don't, even those with classical training - it just
> doesn't really work in modern music) and also because it *IS*
> often useful in working out which person is doing what in a
> song - you often get large groups of singers of different
> classes (like a sorta vocal orchestra i guess).
>
> spoken word, however, i have no problem with :)
>
> Cheers,
> Chris B (Gecks)

Good. I really would prefer we didn't either but was a bit glossy eyed when
I responded this morning and Gecks has taken the time to eloquently respond
to same logic I used when this came up a few weeks ago. If we're going to
classify sing styles as well as voice types we have to include things like
yodeling, mourna, skat, humming, whistling (maybe not truly vocal but you
get the idea).

Spoken word I'm completely on board with.

Cristov (wolfsong)


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