Remixes and recording-of relationships

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Remixes and recording-of relationships

David Gasaway
I'm working on a release with some remixes (which I don't usually work with much), and could use some insight.  I added some relationships like this:
(1) <remix recording a><remix of><recording b>
(2) <recording b><recording of><work c>
I'm finding that with this setup, the UI doesn't show songwriting information and picard doesn't even write a work id tag.  Some other remixes on the release had a pre-existing AR:
(3) <remix recording a><recording of><work c>
This solves the UI/picard problems, but after I added (1), (2) and (3) seem redundant.  Is it normal to have both (1) and (3) on a remix?  If not, I'll think about adding Picard/MBS tickets.

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 7:36 AM, David Gasaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm working on a release with some remixes (which I don't usually work with much), and could use some insight.  I added some relationships like this:
(1) <remix recording a><remix of><recording b>
(2) <recording b><recording of><work c>
I'm finding that with this setup, the UI doesn't show songwriting information and picard doesn't even write a work id tag.  Some other remixes on the release had a pre-existing AR:
(3) <remix recording a><recording of><work c>
This solves the UI/picard problems, but after I added (1), (2) and (3) seem redundant.  Is it normal to have both (1) and (3) on a remix?  If not, I'll think about adding Picard/MBS tickets.

It is. We don't have inheritance pretty much anywhere, since it's hard to get right -  not all remixes are recordings of the same work for example.

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

David Gasaway
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:10 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
It is. We don't have inheritance pretty much anywhere, since it's hard to get right -  not all remixes are recordings of the same work for example.

Hmm.  Seems like you would use "contains samples" or "mash-up" in those cases.  Or it would be so different that you'd create a different work related by "basis for".  I see your point with inheritance, but I wasn't looking for inheritance, necessarily.  Currently, MBS will show something like:
<track>
   recording of: <work>
      composer: <artist>

I'd be looking for something like:
<track>
   remix of: <recording>
      recording of: <work>
         composer: <artist>

Then again, if the practice is to add the recording-work AR, no changes are necessary.

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:10 PM, David Gasaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 3:10 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
It is. We don't have inheritance pretty much anywhere, since it's hard to get right -  not all remixes are recordings of the same work for example.

Hmm.  Seems like you would use "contains samples" or "mash-up" in those cases.  Or it would be so different that you'd create a different work related by "basis for". 

What I was thinking of is cases where a remix of a song involves an additional lyricist, requiring a new work. 

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

David Gasaway
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:

What I was thinking of is cases where a remix of a song involves an additional lyricist, requiring a new work. 

Okay.  Since you say "additional lyrics", that means original lyricist still applies.  The works could be related ("basis of" seems the best available option), but lyricist won't inherit.  So, you'd have to either apply the original songwriters to the new work, *or* relate the recording to both works.  Based on previous discussion, I'd guess the former option?

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 8:49 PM, David Gasaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:

What I was thinking of is cases where a remix of a song involves an additional lyricist, requiring a new work. 

Okay.  Since you say "additional lyrics", that means original lyricist still applies.  The works could be related ("basis of" seems the best available option), but lyricist won't inherit.  So, you'd have to either apply the original songwriters to the new work, *or* relate the recording to both works.  Based on previous discussion, I'd guess the former option?

I'd just add two works, add all relationships that apply to each work (so, yes, add all the original artists to the new work as long as their participation still applies to it - that's how it's done in the industry too FWIW) and relate the recording to the new work.

I'd also just link the two works with "version of" - at least for the case I'm thinking of which is hip hop 'remixes'. "based on" is intended for less direct relationships I'd say - "suite is based on ballet" or "opera is based on novel" or "pop song is based on Chopin piano piece".

Anyway, in general, yes, add any relationship that applies to the recording to the actual recording (unless it is a work-level relationship of course, then add it to the actual work linked to the recording :) )

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

David Gasaway
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
I'd also just link the two works with "version of"

As in "earliest version of"?  I don't even know how to apply that AR properly anymore.

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:10 PM, David Gasaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
I'd also just link the two works with "version of"

As in "earliest version of"?  I don't even know how to apply that AR properly anymore.

Yeah, work-work "version of" is the standard way to link works if none of the other more specialised options are a clear fit. 


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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

David Gasaway
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:10 PM, David Gasaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
As in "earliest version of"?  I don't even know how to apply that AR properly anymore.

Yeah, work-work "version of" is the standard way to link works if none of the other more specialised options are a clear fit. 

And how is the "earliest" bit supposed to be interpreted now?  The SG doesn't help much, because it's obsolete by its own admission.  Just by the text of the AR, it sounds like I should be following a chain of work-work ARs back to the original composition, but that doesn't seem right in the context of this discussion.

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Re: Remixes and recording-of relationships

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:26 PM, David Gasaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 9:10 PM, David Gasaway <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
As in "earliest version of"?  I don't even know how to apply that AR properly anymore.

Yeah, work-work "version of" is the standard way to link works if none of the other more specialised options are a clear fit. 

And how is the "earliest" bit supposed to be interpreted now?  The SG doesn't help much, because it's obsolete by its own admission.  Just by the text of the AR, it sounds like I should be following a chain of work-work ARs back to the original composition, but that doesn't seem right in the context of this discussion.

Heh, I didn't even remember that it still had the "earliest" word. I think pretty much everyone has used it just to link versions directly, creating a chain when needed (X is a version of Y which is a version of Z).
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