STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance but no known legal name

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STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance but no known legal name

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
We recently got a ticket asking what to do when an artist has multiple performance names, but we don't know, and can't find, the actual legal name (so we can't just link them together via the legal name as usually): http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-549

I've personally usually dealt with this with annotations, but admittedly that really restricts the connection - for example, the other artist names don't appear on their pages as they do when using proper relationshios (like in http://musicbrainz.org/artist/f90e8b26-9e52-4669-a5c9-e28529c47894).

I'd like to hear what people's ideas on this kind of thing are. Should we kinda misuse the relationship, and link all other performance names to the most well-known one as the "legal name"? Should we create a placeholder legal name artist somehow? (if so, what should be its name? [unknown] is taken after all). Do you have any better ideas on how to deal with the whole issue?

Looking forward to some feedback!

Cheers,
Nicolás

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Re: STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance but no known legal name

Daniel Sobey
Here is my method for finding some of these names.

Using the works databases you can sometimes track down an artists full name.
The apra search engine allows you to enter a performance name and a song name so you can use this as a starting point
Note that the output is limited and this usually only returns the last name.
Note that the person may not write thair own songs and it may be a cover so try and see if all the songs are written by the one person.

Now we have a last name or a list of last names start to correlate this with the song in other databases.
Use other works database linked from https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Work to find the rest of the name.
Search by song name + last name and see if there is a registered work in the database.
Search for anything that they have recorded and if you can see if the same name / ipi number shows up.
If you can see that most of the works are written by the one person you have more of a confirmation that you have the right person.

Also check wikipedia, discogs, and google.
If someone has written an article about them it may include thair legal name.
You can sometimes get lucky with googling "song name writer" "musician interview", "better known as xxxx"
Sometimes checking thair facebook, twitter, soundcloud also confirms the legal name.



On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 1:42 AM, Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]> wrote:
We recently got a ticket asking what to do when an artist has multiple performance names, but we don't know, and can't find, the actual legal name (so we can't just link them together via the legal name as usually): http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-549

I've personally usually dealt with this with annotations, but admittedly that really restricts the connection - for example, the other artist names don't appear on their pages as they do when using proper relationshios (like in http://musicbrainz.org/artist/f90e8b26-9e52-4669-a5c9-e28529c47894).

I'd like to hear what people's ideas on this kind of thing are. Should we kinda misuse the relationship, and link all other performance names to the most well-known one as the "legal name"? Should we create a placeholder legal name artist somehow? (if so, what should be its name? [unknown] is taken after all). Do you have any better ideas on how to deal with the whole issue?

Looking forward to some feedback!

Cheers,
Nicolás

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Re: STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance but no known legal name

August Janse
In reply to this post by Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
I can't think of any good reason not to use a placeholder, when this relationship is desired and the legal name truly can't be found. Partial name if available or else (an artist-specific) [unknown], both with disambiguation comments should do. Is there something I'm missing?

2015-09-22 14:00 GMT+02:00 <[hidden email]>:
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Today's Topics:

   1. STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance but
      no known legal name (Nicol?s Tamargo de Eguren)
   2. Re: STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance
      but no known legal name (Daniel Sobey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:12:31 +0300
From: Nicol?s Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>
Subject: [mb-style] STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple
        performance but no known legal name
To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
        <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

We recently got a ticket asking what to do when an artist has multiple
performance names, but we don't know, and can't find, the actual legal name
(so we can't just link them together via the legal name as usually):
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-549

I've personally usually dealt with this with annotations, but admittedly
that really restricts the connection - for example, the other artist names
don't appear on their pages as they do when using proper relationshios
(like in http://musicbrainz.org/artist/f90e8b26-9e52-4669-a5c9-e28529c47894
).

I'd like to hear what people's ideas on this kind of thing are. Should we
kinda misuse the relationship, and link all other performance names to the
most well-known one as the "legal name"? Should we create a placeholder
legal name artist somehow? (if so, what should be its name? [unknown] is
taken after all). Do you have any better ideas on how to deal with the
whole issue?

Looking forward to some feedback!

Cheers,
Nicol?s
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 09:38:53 +0930
From: Daniel Sobey <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [mb-style] STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple
        performance but no known legal name
To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
        <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Here is my method for finding some of these names.

Using the works databases you can sometimes track down an artists full name.
The apra search engine allows you to enter a performance name and a song
name so you can use this as a starting point
https://www.apra.com.au/cms/worksearch/worksearch.srvlt
Note that the output is limited and this usually only returns the last name.
Note that the person may not write thair own songs and it may be a cover so
try and see if all the songs are written by the one person.

Now we have a last name or a list of last names start to correlate this
with the song in other databases.
Use other works database linked from https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Work to
find the rest of the name.
Search by song name + last name and see if there is a registered work in
the database.
http://iswcnet.cisac.org/
https://www.ascap.com/Home/ace-title-search/index.aspx
http://repertoire.bmi.com/startpage.asp
Search for anything that they have recorded and if you can see if the same
name / ipi number shows up.
If you can see that most of the works are written by the one person you
have more of a confirmation that you have the right person.

Also check wikipedia, discogs, and google.
If someone has written an article about them it may include thair legal
name.
You can sometimes get lucky with googling "song name writer" "musician
interview", "better known as xxxx"
Sometimes checking thair facebook, twitter, soundcloud also confirms the
legal name.



On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 1:42 AM, Nicol?s Tamargo de Eguren <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> We recently got a ticket asking what to do when an artist has multiple
> performance names, but we don't know, and can't find, the actual legal name
> (so we can't just link them together via the legal name as usually):
> http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-549
>
> I've personally usually dealt with this with annotations, but admittedly
> that really restricts the connection - for example, the other artist names
> don't appear on their pages as they do when using proper relationshios
> (like in
> http://musicbrainz.org/artist/f90e8b26-9e52-4669-a5c9-e28529c47894).
>
> I'd like to hear what people's ideas on this kind of thing are. Should we
> kinda misuse the relationship, and link all other performance names to the
> most well-known one as the "legal name"? Should we create a placeholder
> legal name artist somehow? (if so, what should be its name? [unknown] is
> taken after all). Do you have any better ideas on how to deal with the
> whole issue?
>
> Looking forward to some feedback!
>
> Cheers,
> Nicol?s
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-style mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
>
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Re: STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance but no known legal name

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
The main problem I see with a placeholder is how to tell data users that they shouldn't display the placeholder text "[Artist X and Y legal name]" or "[unknown]" or whatever as the legal name. I'm not a fan of sending data like that unless we can properly identify it as such so that users can filter it.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 10:04 PM, August Janse <[hidden email]> wrote:
I can't think of any good reason not to use a placeholder, when this relationship is desired and the legal name truly can't be found. Partial name if available or else (an artist-specific) [unknown], both with disambiguation comments should do. Is there something I'm missing?

2015-09-22 14:00 GMT+02:00 <[hidden email]>:
Send MusicBrainz-style mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of MusicBrainz-style digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance but
      no known legal name (Nicol?s Tamargo de Eguren)
   2. Re: STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple performance
      but no known legal name (Daniel Sobey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 19:12:31 +0300
From: Nicol?s Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>
Subject: [mb-style] STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple
        performance but no known legal name
To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
        <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

We recently got a ticket asking what to do when an artist has multiple
performance names, but we don't know, and can't find, the actual legal name
(so we can't just link them together via the legal name as usually):
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-549

I've personally usually dealt with this with annotations, but admittedly
that really restricts the connection - for example, the other artist names
don't appear on their pages as they do when using proper relationshios
(like in http://musicbrainz.org/artist/f90e8b26-9e52-4669-a5c9-e28529c47894
).

I'd like to hear what people's ideas on this kind of thing are. Should we
kinda misuse the relationship, and link all other performance names to the
most well-known one as the "legal name"? Should we create a placeholder
legal name artist somehow? (if so, what should be its name? [unknown] is
taken after all). Do you have any better ideas on how to deal with the
whole issue?

Looking forward to some feedback!

Cheers,
Nicol?s
-------------- next part --------------
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URL: http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/attachments/20150921/1b8812a0/attachment-0001.htm

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 09:38:53 +0930
From: Daniel Sobey <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [mb-style] STYLE-549: Dealing with artists with multiple
        performance but no known legal name
To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
        <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


Here is my method for finding some of these names.

Using the works databases you can sometimes track down an artists full name.
The apra search engine allows you to enter a performance name and a song
name so you can use this as a starting point
https://www.apra.com.au/cms/worksearch/worksearch.srvlt
Note that the output is limited and this usually only returns the last name.
Note that the person may not write thair own songs and it may be a cover so
try and see if all the songs are written by the one person.

Now we have a last name or a list of last names start to correlate this
with the song in other databases.
Use other works database linked from https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Work to
find the rest of the name.
Search by song name + last name and see if there is a registered work in
the database.
http://iswcnet.cisac.org/
https://www.ascap.com/Home/ace-title-search/index.aspx
http://repertoire.bmi.com/startpage.asp
Search for anything that they have recorded and if you can see if the same
name / ipi number shows up.
If you can see that most of the works are written by the one person you
have more of a confirmation that you have the right person.

Also check wikipedia, discogs, and google.
If someone has written an article about them it may include thair legal
name.
You can sometimes get lucky with googling "song name writer" "musician
interview", "better known as xxxx"
Sometimes checking thair facebook, twitter, soundcloud also confirms the
legal name.



On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 1:42 AM, Nicol?s Tamargo de Eguren <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> We recently got a ticket asking what to do when an artist has multiple
> performance names, but we don't know, and can't find, the actual legal name
> (so we can't just link them together via the legal name as usually):
> http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/STYLE-549
>
> I've personally usually dealt with this with annotations, but admittedly
> that really restricts the connection - for example, the other artist names
> don't appear on their pages as they do when using proper relationshios
> (like in
> http://musicbrainz.org/artist/f90e8b26-9e52-4669-a5c9-e28529c47894).
>
> I'd like to hear what people's ideas on this kind of thing are. Should we
> kinda misuse the relationship, and link all other performance names to the
> most well-known one as the "legal name"? Should we create a placeholder
> legal name artist somehow? (if so, what should be its name? [unknown] is
> taken after all). Do you have any better ideas on how to deal with the
> whole issue?
>
> Looking forward to some feedback!
>
> Cheers,
> Nicol?s
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-style mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
>
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--
Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

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