arrangement recordings

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arrangement recordings

Frederic Da Vitoria
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. Has this been removed (and are we supposed to always create an arranged work) or is this a bug, or am I just not looking where I should?

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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Re: arrangement recordings

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. 

Er. How _what_ is currently achieved? Creating a new work?
 
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Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

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Re: arrangement recordings

Frederic Da Vitoria
2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. 

Er. How _what_ is currently achieved? Creating a new work?


--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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Re: arrangement recordings

Frederic Da Vitoria
2014-02-05 Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]>:
2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. 

Er. How _what_ is currently achieved? Creating a new work?


I was expecting an "arrangement" attribute

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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Re: arrangement recordings

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
2014-02-05 Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]>:

2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. 

Er. How _what_ is currently achieved? Creating a new work?


I was expecting an "arrangement" attribute

Oh. Yeah, unsure. I mean, I imagine it would make sense for us to create a catch-all work for these cases? I don't really like the idea of an arrangement attribute, but mostly because it feels like storing the info at the wrong level. I'm not particularly in favour of the idea of needing more than one recording to add a (published) arrangement anyway, but in any case I feel this belongs at the work level. Of course, I fully admit to being lazy and not always adding such catch-all works, especially for now since we don't even have instrumentation on works...

--
Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

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Re: arrangement recordings

Frederic Da Vitoria
2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
2014-02-05 Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]>:

2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. 

Er. How _what_ is currently achieved? Creating a new work?


I was expecting an "arrangement" attribute

Oh. Yeah, unsure. I mean, I imagine it would make sense for us to create a catch-all work for these cases? I don't really like the idea of an arrangement attribute, but mostly because it feels like storing the info at the wrong level. I'm not particularly in favour of the idea of needing more than one recording to add a (published) arrangement anyway, but in any case I feel this belongs at the work level. Of course, I fully admit to being lazy and not always adding such catch-all works, especially for now since we don't even have instrumentation on works...

I agree creating a work is the best way in terms of data structure. But IIRC this was decided to avoid creating works just for one arranged recording. IIRC, this was more to avoid cluttering the Works table than to make input easier. Anyhow, this is not really what I am asking. According to the forum link above, I thought this was implemented and I was just surprised at not finding it. But maybe the discussion was only about the documentation and maybe the arrangement attribute has never been implemented.

So, I currently have found 3 (at least) orchestral performances of this piano work. My best idea would be to create a catchall arrangement for this waltz, with a mention (disambiguation comment?) stating that it is a catchall and that nobody should add an arranger AR to it (because these could be different arrangements). Do you agree?

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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Re: arrangement recordings

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
2014-02-05 Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]>:

2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. 

Er. How _what_ is currently achieved? Creating a new work?


I was expecting an "arrangement" attribute

Oh. Yeah, unsure. I mean, I imagine it would make sense for us to create a catch-all work for these cases? I don't really like the idea of an arrangement attribute, but mostly because it feels like storing the info at the wrong level. I'm not particularly in favour of the idea of needing more than one recording to add a (published) arrangement anyway, but in any case I feel this belongs at the work level. Of course, I fully admit to being lazy and not always adding such catch-all works, especially for now since we don't even have instrumentation on works...

I agree creating a work is the best way in terms of data structure. But IIRC this was decided to avoid creating works just for one arranged recording. IIRC, this was more to avoid cluttering the Works table than to make input easier. Anyhow, this is not really what I am asking. According to the forum link above, I thought this was implemented and I was just surprised at not finding it. But maybe the discussion was only about the documentation and maybe the arrangement attribute has never been implemented.

That forum post seems to be about where to put the arranger relationship for the artist who arranged it (which can indeed go on the recording or the work).
 
So, I currently have found 3 (at least) orchestral performances of this piano work. My best idea would be to create a catchall arrangement for this waltz, with a mention (disambiguation comment?) stating that it is a catchall and that nobody should add an arranger AR to it (because these could be different arrangements). Do you agree?

That sounds reasonable. 

--
Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

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Re: arrangement recordings

Frederic Da Vitoria
2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
2014-02-05 Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]>:

2014-02-05 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[hidden email]>:


On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

Once upon a time ( not so long ago http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording - Work editor. 

Er. How _what_ is currently achieved? Creating a new work?


I was expecting an "arrangement" attribute

Oh. Yeah, unsure. I mean, I imagine it would make sense for us to create a catch-all work for these cases? I don't really like the idea of an arrangement attribute, but mostly because it feels like storing the info at the wrong level. I'm not particularly in favour of the idea of needing more than one recording to add a (published) arrangement anyway, but in any case I feel this belongs at the work level. Of course, I fully admit to being lazy and not always adding such catch-all works, especially for now since we don't even have instrumentation on works...

I agree creating a work is the best way in terms of data structure. But IIRC this was decided to avoid creating works just for one arranged recording. IIRC, this was more to avoid cluttering the Works table than to make input easier. Anyhow, this is not really what I am asking. According to the forum link above, I thought this was implemented and I was just surprised at not finding it. But maybe the discussion was only about the documentation and maybe the arrangement attribute has never been implemented.

That forum post seems to be about where to put the arranger relationship for the artist who arranged it (which can indeed go on the recording or the work).
 
So, I currently have found 3 (at least) orchestral performances of this piano work. My best idea would be to create a catchall arrangement for this waltz, with a mention (disambiguation comment?) stating that it is a catchall and that nobody should add an arranger AR to it (because these could be different arrangements). Do you agree?

That sounds reasonable.

OK. Done

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

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Re: arrangement recordings

Calvin Walton-2
In reply to this post by Frederic Da Vitoria
On Wed, 2014-02-05 at 12:52 +0100, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Once upon a time ( not so long ago
> http://forums.musicbrainz.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588 ), we were supposed to
> create arrangement works only if there was more than one recording of this
> arrangement. I can't see how this is currently achieved in the Recording -
> Work editor. Has this been removed (and are we supposed to always create an
> arranged work) or is this a bug, or am I just not looking where I should?

The reasoning behind this was primarily for popular music, where pretty
much any time a different artist performs the same song, it will
probably be a new arrangement done by that artist. Creating a million
works for each simple "cover" of a popular song did not seem to be a
good way to go.

On popular music, this is normally indicated by adding a
[recording] arranged by: [artist]
relationship.

I see from your later messages that you're working with classical music
here - in particular, an orchestral version of a piano work. This is
such a significant change that it probably does deserve a new work.

--
Calvin Walton <[hidden email]>


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