how to handle "enhanced CD"??

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how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Brian Whitehead
Could someone please explain how "enhanced CDs" with a partition containing videos are supposed to be handled.  I cannot find anything in the documentation about this.  I have a lot of CDs like this and they are never found.  A good example is the album Awake by Godsmack.  In fact this album didn't show up in either a artist or album search.  When I started to add it as a new release, it finally found 3 releases.  I tried using one but when I attach the DiscID, it shows a 12th track which is the video partition.

I'm getting very frustrated with this and can't find anything in the documentation to help.

​-- B

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Johannes Dewender
Am 04.10.2014 um 19:42 schrieb Brian Whitehead:

> Could someone please explain how "enhanced CDs" with a partition
> containing videos are supposed to be handled.  I cannot find anything in
> the documentation about this.  I have a lot of CDs like this and they
> are never found.  A good example is the album Awake by Godsmack.  In
> fact this album didn't show up in either a artist or album search.  When
> I started to add it as a new release, it finally found 3 releases.  I
> tried using one but when I attach the DiscID, it shows a 12th track
> which is the video partition.
>
> I'm getting very frustrated with this and can't find anything in the
> documentation to help.


The trailing data track gets discarded in the Disc ID calculation.
See this for technical details (users don't need to know these):
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Disc_ID_Calculation

The official style guide you are searching is this:
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Unknown_and_untitled/Special_purpose_track_title#Data_tracks
I notice there is no indication about that on
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release
There is a question about that in the FAQ:
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Editing_FAQ#Does_MusicBrainz_store_information_about_data_tracks.3F_How_should_they_be_entered.2C_if_at_all.3F

An enhanced CD with 11 audio tracks and having a data track with a video
on track 12 shows up as a 11-track release on MusicBrainz.

So when you are using libdiscid (directly or indirectly, Picard uses
libdiscid) it does the right thing. If you use something else, there
might be a bug regarding data tracks.

Please tell us if there is a place in the Documentation where you
expected this information and it wasn't mentioned or linked.

--
JonnyJD

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Brian Whitehead

Every time i have tried to import a disc id with one of these it has shown up as an additional track with no way to delete it.  It doesn't allow the track to be deleted either.  It requires a name.  I've had to just give up and not save my changes.

As far as where to find the documentation,  i really don't know.  It would be nice to search for "enhanced cd" or similar terms that they are called in the industry.

On Oct 4, 2014 4:58 PM, "Johannes Dewender" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am 04.10.2014 um 19:42 schrieb Brian Whitehead:
> Could someone please explain how "enhanced CDs" with a partition
> containing videos are supposed to be handled.  I cannot find anything in
> the documentation about this.  I have a lot of CDs like this and they
> are never found.  A good example is the album Awake by Godsmack.  In
> fact this album didn't show up in either a artist or album search.  When
> I started to add it as a new release, it finally found 3 releases.  I
> tried using one but when I attach the DiscID, it shows a 12th track
> which is the video partition.
>
> I'm getting very frustrated with this and can't find anything in the
> documentation to help.


The trailing data track gets discarded in the Disc ID calculation.
See this for technical details (users don't need to know these):
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Disc_ID_Calculation

The official style guide you are searching is this:
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Unknown_and_untitled/Special_purpose_track_title#Data_tracks
I notice there is no indication about that on
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release
There is a question about that in the FAQ:
https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Editing_FAQ#Does_MusicBrainz_store_information_about_data_tracks.3F_How_should_they_be_entered.2C_if_at_all.3F

An enhanced CD with 11 audio tracks and having a data track with a video
on track 12 shows up as a 11-track release on MusicBrainz.

So when you are using libdiscid (directly or indirectly, Picard uses
libdiscid) it does the right thing. If you use something else, there
might be a bug regarding data tracks.

Please tell us if there is a place in the Documentation where you
expected this information and it wasn't mentioned or linked.

--
JonnyJD

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Johannes Dewender
Am 05.10.2014 um 01:35 schrieb Brian Whitehead:
> Every time i have tried to import a disc id with one of these it has
> shown up as an additional track with no way to delete it.  It doesn't
> allow the track to be deleted either.  It requires a name.  I've had to
> just give up and not save my changes.

Which tool do you use to create the disc ID and how do you import it?
Like I said, when using Picard or other supported tools it should not
show up as an additional track.

As far as the deletion goes: if you submit a release starting with a
disc ID you can't just remove a track that is part of the disc ID/TOC.
The problem is rather that the disc ID/TOC is wrong somehow.

So what tool are you using to create/submit the disc ID?

--
JonnyJD

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Brian Whitehead
In reply to this post by Johannes Dewender


​After reviewing two of the links provided, they seem to contradict one another.

  • If the data track comes last on the CD and isn't visible in an audio CD player, the track should not be entered into MusicBrainz.

Data Tracks should only be on tracklistings if they appear when you try to submit a discID.

​The second statement makes more sense, since this is what happens and there is no option to delete the additional track.

​-- B

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Brian Whitehead
In reply to this post by Johannes Dewender
I'm using rhythmbox on Linux.

Brian Whitehead
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MB: 214.499.4142

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Johannes Dewender <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am 05.10.2014 um 01:35 schrieb Brian Whitehead:
> Every time i have tried to import a disc id with one of these it has
> shown up as an additional track with no way to delete it.  It doesn't
> allow the track to be deleted either.  It requires a name.  I've had to
> just give up and not save my changes.

Which tool do you use to create the disc ID and how do you import it?
Like I said, when using Picard or other supported tools it should not
show up as an additional track.

As far as the deletion goes: if you submit a release starting with a
disc ID you can't just remove a track that is part of the disc ID/TOC.
The problem is rather that the disc ID/TOC is wrong somehow.

So what tool are you using to create/submit the disc ID?

--
JonnyJD

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Johannes Dewender
Am 05.10.2014 um 03:11 schrieb Brian Whitehead:
> I'm using rhythmbox on Linux.

This is probably this known (and fixed) bug:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708991
summary:
Rhytmbox was using libdiscid up until 2.97 and everything was fine.
Then with 2.98 they used gstreamer for MusicBrainz Disc IDs. The
gstreamer implementation was broken.
The fixed gstreamer is gst-plugins-base1.0 (1.3.1).

So either use Rhytmbox <= 2.97 or make sure you have at least
gst-plugins-base1.0 version 1.3.1.

Another workaround is to use MusicBrainz Picard to submit enhanced CDs,
when you can't get working versions of the other tools easily.

About your other mail and the "contradiction".
MusicBrainz defines what a MusicBrainz DiscID should look like for a CD.
If a DiscID does not conform (because of bugs) then "things fall apart".
What that part tries to tell:
"Removing data tracks should work automatically when you add a DiscID",
which it does in the absence of (3rd party) bugs.


--
JonnyJD


PS:
I am aware that there is a Ubuntu LTS (Trusty Tahr) with "broken
versions" so the problem will haunt us for quite some time still.
Unfortunately the fix probably won't be backported to Trusty and/or
gstreamer 1.2.x. This is not in our hands. (gstreamer and Ubuntu are in
charge of that)

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Brian Whitehead
​Thank you for the details.  This all makes much more sense now.  I'm currently running CentOS 7.  The rhythmbox version is 2.99.1-3.el7.x86_64.  The gstreamer version is gstreamer-plugins-base-0.10.36-10.el7.x86_64.   I'll take a look at compling the source for Picard.  

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 8:57 PM, Johannes Dewender <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am 05.10.2014 um 03:11 schrieb Brian Whitehead:
> I'm using rhythmbox on Linux.

This is probably this known (and fixed) bug:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708991
summary:
Rhytmbox was using libdiscid up until 2.97 and everything was fine.
Then with 2.98 they used gstreamer for MusicBrainz Disc IDs. The
gstreamer implementation was broken.
The fixed gstreamer is gst-plugins-base1.0 (1.3.1).

So either use Rhytmbox <= 2.97 or make sure you have at least
gst-plugins-base1.0 version 1.3.1.

Another workaround is to use MusicBrainz Picard to submit enhanced CDs,
when you can't get working versions of the other tools easily.

About your other mail and the "contradiction".
MusicBrainz defines what a MusicBrainz DiscID should look like for a CD.
If a DiscID does not conform (because of bugs) then "things fall apart".
What that part tries to tell:
"Removing data tracks should work automatically when you add a DiscID",
which it does in the absence of (3rd party) bugs.


--
JonnyJD


PS:
I am aware that there is a Ubuntu LTS (Trusty Tahr) with "broken
versions" so the problem will haunt us for quite some time still.
Unfortunately the fix probably won't be backported to Trusty and/or
gstreamer 1.2.x. This is not in our hands. (gstreamer and Ubuntu are in
charge of that)

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Per Starbäck
> I'm currently running CentOS 7.  The rhythmbox version is 2.99.1-3.el7.x86_64.
> The gstreamer version is gstreamer-plugins-base-0.10.36-10.el7.x86_64.
> I'll take a look at compling the source for Picard.

If I remember correctly I have had the included version of
sound-juicer work regarding this when the included version of
rhythmbox didn't, in Fedora, so that might be another option for you.

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Re: how to handle "enhanced CD"??

Johannes Dewender
Am 05.10.2014 um 16:31 schrieb Per Starbäck:
>> I'm currently running CentOS 7.  The rhythmbox version is 2.99.1-3.el7.x86_64.
>> The gstreamer version is gstreamer-plugins-base-0.10.36-10.el7.x86_64.
>> I'll take a look at compling the source for Picard.
>
> If I remember correctly I have had the included version of
> sound-juicer work regarding this when the included version of
> rhythmbox didn't, in Fedora, so that might be another option for you.

Yes, sound-juicer uses MusicBrainz libdiscid and disc IDs should be correct.

--
JonnyJD

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